Delegate Dumais working on bill to ban 80% firearms

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    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    My question for all of those legislators is why not just make registration of them mandatory?

    If that is really their concern, untraceable guns I can solve it in a minute. All home made guns must be registered with MSP licensing division by 10/1/2019. A $10 fee for registration is required. MSP licensing division will issue a serial number to be imprinted in the firearm. After 10/1/2019 any homemade firearms must be imprinted with a serial number issued by MSP prior to manufacture being completed.

    All such S/Ns and registrations to cost $10 and the applicant submits a description of the firearm, their name and address and MSP willissue a serial number within 24hrs.

    Done.

    I get the point isn’t even registry. It is full throated manufactured terror and control.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    My question for all of those legislators is why not just make registration of them mandatory?

    If that is really their concern, untraceable guns I can solve it in a minute. All home made guns must be registered with MSP licensing division by 10/1/2019. A $10 fee for registration is required. MSP licensing division will issue a serial number to be imprinted in the firearm. After 10/1/2019 any homemade firearms must be imprinted with a serial number issued by MSP prior to manufacture being completed.

    All such S/Ns and registrations to cost $10 and the applicant submits a description of the firearm, their name and address and MSP willissue a serial number within 24hrs.

    Done.

    I get the point isn’t even registry. It is full throated manufactured terror and control.

    Come on now, somebody might manufacture something and NOT register it. Then, they could commit all kinds of crimes with it. However, if we outlaw manufacturing in its entirety, then NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, will manufacture a firearm and commit any crimes with it. Once it is completely illegal, there is nothing to worry about. Kind of like murder. Don't have to worry about that anymore.

    Then, you miss the entire point of building up an 80% firearm. It is there to avoid confiscation when the powers that be finally come for all of them. Why go through the time and effort to build out an 80% when a new, serialized lower, from a manufacturer is pretty darn cheap right now. You can buy an Anderson Manufacturing lower right now for $39.95. Your serialized Glock frame costs what, $150. How much would it cost to buy that frame, the tools, and then build out the 80% only to have it serialized?

    I understand your point, but as far as I am concerned, it makes no difference one way or another whether they outright ban all unserialized lowers or allow us to serialize homemade guns going forward. If I have to serialize it, I will just buy one from the manufacturer. All they need to do is grandfather in and require registration with MSP within a year of the law going into effect. Kind of like what they did for assault pistols.

    What a pile.
     

    Allen65

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    7,063
    Anne Arundel County
    I understand your point, but as far as I am concerned, it makes no difference one way or another whether they outright ban all unserialized lowers or allow us to serialize homemade guns going forward. If I have to serialize it, I will just buy one from the manufacturer. All they need to do is grandfather in and require registration with MSP within a year of the law going into effect. Kind of like what they did for assault pistols.

    "Serialized" doesn't automatically equate to "registered". It just means that it has a unique identifying code of some sort on it. That code doesn't need to mean anything, or even be known, to anyone other than the person who put the S/N on the item.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    "Serialized" doesn't automatically equate to "registered". It just means that it has a unique identifying code of some sort on it. That code doesn't need to mean anything, or even be known, to anyone other than the person who put the S/N on the item.

    Hoping to have an answer to your PM this weekend. Lots of questions going through my mind that I do not readily have the answer to.
     

    Docster

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 19, 2010
    9,768
    Any discussion about whether the bill(s) will go through unchanged or with some additions/deletions?
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    "Serialized" doesn't automatically equate to "registered". It just means that it has a unique identifying code of some sort on it. That code doesn't need to mean anything, or even be known, to anyone other than the person who put the S/N on the item.

    I believe it mentions serialized by a licensed manufacturer, correct? That would mean registered.
     

    budman93

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 1, 2013
    5,267
    Frederick County
    Can a licensed manufacturer serialize something that they did not manufacture in the first place? Let's start there. Is this even an option for those that have already built up 80% firearms?

    Thats a valid question. What is to say that they couldnt serialize a completed lower after the owner completes it. They wouldnt be manufacturing then. But getting someone to do that would probably be impossible. But I'm sure no one here built any 80s right?
     

    RuralRifleGuy

    Active Member
    Aug 16, 2018
    918
    Queenstown
    Say I have an 80% lower, I send off the paperwork and fee for an SBR, receive the stamp and then have the lower engraved with the serial number I supplied to the ATF and the other pertinent info. Would that still be effected by this bill or would that allow me to keep my legally purchased property and not become a criminal overnight come 10/1?
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Say I have an 80% lower, I send off the paperwork and fee for an SBR, receive the stamp and then have the lower engraved with the serial number I supplied to the ATF and the other pertinent info. Would that still be effected by this bill or would that allow me to keep my legally purchased property and not become a criminal overnight come 10/1?

    It should not be affected. SBR’s are not rifles, technically. They are also registered. God knows.
     

    PowPow

    Where's the beef?
    Nov 22, 2012
    4,712
    Howard County
    My question for all of those legislators is why not just make registration of them mandatory?

    If that is really their concern, untraceable guns I can solve it in a minute. All home made guns must be registered with MSP licensing division by 10/1/2019. A $10 fee for registration is required. MSP licensing division will issue a serial number to be imprinted in the firearm. After 10/1/2019 any homemade firearms must be imprinted with a serial number issued by MSP prior to manufacture being completed.

    All such S/Ns and registrations to cost $10 and the applicant submits a description of the firearm, their name and address and MSP willissue a serial number within 24hrs.

    Done.

    I get the point isn’t even registry. It is full throated manufactured terror and control.

    They do not want you or anyone else to own a firearm. Period. They don't even want you to own a knife, car, or farting cow. All they demand is your obedience, compliance, and respect. Anything else requires your re-education, Comrade.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    It should not be affected. SBR’s are not rifles, technically. They are also registered. God knows.

    Um, the law says no home made firearms.

    Period.

    Only firearms serialized by a licensed manufacturer or importer are legal.

    A home built SBR is not serialized by a licensed manufacturer. You’d have a better argument, but I am pretty sure you’d be F-ed under this law still.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Um, the law says no home made firearms.

    Period.

    Only firearms serialized by a licensed manufacturer or importer are legal.

    A home built SBR is not serialized by a licensed manufacturer. You’d have a better argument, but I am pretty sure you’d be F-ed under this law still.

    You may be right. Who knows if a tax stamp would suffice, since a form 1 is permission from the crown to build said firearm, and you are the manufacturer. F’em. I’m keeping mine.
     

    dogbone

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 14, 2011
    2,981
    GTT - Gone To Texas
    My question for all of those legislators is why not just make registration of them mandatory?

    If that is really their concern, untraceable guns I can solve it in a minute. All home made guns must be registered with MSP licensing division by 10/1/2019. A $10 fee for registration is required. MSP licensing division will issue a serial number to be imprinted in the firearm. After 10/1/2019 any homemade firearms must be imprinted with a serial number issued by MSP prior to manufacture being completed.

    All such S/Ns and registrations to cost $10 and the applicant submits a description of the firearm, their name and address and MSP willissue a serial number within 24hrs.

    Done.

    I get the point isn’t even registry. It is full throated manufactured terror and control.

    That is essentially the bill we are fighting this session in Texas. HB 38 would require a state issued serial number and a background check.

    There is an interesting problem with this idea. The U.S. Supreme Court case of Haynes v. United States says a law requiring registration cannot be applied to a person prohibited from owning firearms as it would violate their right against self incrimination under the 5th Amendment.

    So here you have a law which criminals not only won't follow but one they do not have to follow. Sounds like it would be a great fit in Annapolis.
     

    shootin the breeze

    Missed it by that much
    Dec 22, 2012
    3,878
    Highland
    You may be right. Who knows if a tax stamp would suffice, since a form 1 is permission from the crown to build said firearm, and you are the manufacturer. F’em. I’m keeping mine.

    Not going to stop me. I really dont care what the gun laws are anymore, they are all infringements. I'm going to build what I want into the configuration that I want. Come and take them, I dare you.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

    Here, here. I have only one 80% and it’s a CNC’d one too. If this passes, I’ll buy a case of 80% before 10/1/19 and build everyone of them starting that day. They can take them if they dare. No more infringement. Not one inch!
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    A home built SBR is not serialized by a licensed manufacturer. You’d have a better argument, but I am pretty sure you’d be F-ed under this law still.

    So then what is a firearm in legalese. Any lawyer want to chime in?

    It's my understanding the serialized lower is the firearm so if you buy a serialized lower and file with form 1 then you can do what you will to it. You didn't build anything you bought a firearm and modified it legally.
     
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