Extractor Marks ?

JamesBailey · Jan 26, 2011

Jerry M said:
Ed, Look at the primers. They are perfect, not flat at all. I would shit can that brass and try that load again with Winchester, LC brass, or something else.

Good luck

Jerry

+1. It looks like crap brass to me. Winchester is a great economical choice. Your Varget charges don't seem too hot, at least against the manuals. Get some better brass and work up from 41-42gr starting point using the OCW method. Ed's got a great discussion on OCW here: http://www.shell-central.com/Powder1.html

E.Shell · Jan 26, 2011

You guys may be right, I didn't pay that much attention to the primers. That would make that some of the softest brass ever...

Tstras · Jan 26, 2011

Thanks guys for all of the help, info, and links. Its all very much appreciated.

Let me try to understand this. Are we saying that the loads might not be too hot and that the brass might just be extremely soft? If so, should I trash the brass and buy better stuff and see how it reacts.

Rockzilla · Jan 26, 2011

Tstras said:
Thanks guys for all of the help, info, and links. Its all very much appreciated.

Let me try to understand this. Are we saying that the loads might not be too hot and that the brass might just be extremely soft? If so, should I trash the brass and buy better stuff and see how it reacts.

Correct....Federal brass is not the best known to use for reloading, the older brass is (80's) if you look around on several sites, they discuss primer pockets being loose, how the brass "flows" more than others, some "may" reload it once then toss it for salvage. Get some LC once fired, Lapua, Norma, IMI, IVI, even Winchester. If you use the Mil stuff it's thicker, you will have to work up your loads again.I'll look around I think I have a couple of boxes of once fired Winchester I can throw in the mail to ya. If not pickup some once fired LC stuff.

-Rock

bulletbill · Jan 26, 2011

E.Shell said:
You guys may be right, I didn't pay that much attention to the primers. That would make that some of the softest brass ever...

Actually, I was thinking maybe the brass was too small for the chamber. Too much headspace as it were. So when the round is touched off it's at the front of the chamber and the head comes crashing into the bolt. Just a theory. Only way to know for sure is to measure before and after and see how much stretch there is.

E.Shell · Jan 26, 2011

bulletbill said:
Actually, I was thinking maybe the brass was too small for the chamber. Too much headspace as it were. So when the round is touched off it's at the front of the chamber and the head comes crashing into the bolt. Just a theory. Only way to know for sure is to measure before and after and see how much stretch there is.

Good suggestion and headspace will definitely show up as pressure signs like this, but excess headspace will generally show flattened primer edges too.

1) Firing pin drives case forward until any excess space is taken up in front of the shoulder and the case stops, leaving the gap between the bolt face and case head.
2) Firing pin finally has enough to push against to fire the primer.
3) Primer fires, explosive force against the primer pocket interior pushes the primer back the same distance as the headspace dimension.
4) Powder ignites, pressure builds, case gets pushed back as far as it will slide, then stretch.
5) As the case moves back to meet the bolt face, the primer is driven back into the pocket and flattens as it's re-seated under pressure.

PoPo3 · Jan 28, 2011

I'm guessing...again guessing, but if you are getting marks on factory ammo...something else is going on. Like Rock said, I've found Federal brass to be softer than most. Try a different brass and see what happens. It's funny that you have no problems showing in the primers. That's usually the first sign of high pressure. Good luck and keep us posted...I'm curious to find out what the problem is...ha

Rockzilla · Jan 28, 2011

this just keeps me thinking Federal brass is softer than others, which in turn would cause this, sizing "this brass" would also cause this as to how it sits in the chamber ( how tight or loose it is) So firstly let's rule out the brass, change to different kind, then we go from there, in most cases the most obvious is right there in front of you, we have a tendency to think of everything around it.
No flattened primers, no cratering, etc... these may not mean anything but...
found some once fired LC, Fed, WinNT, WCC 5.56 brass, come to think of it the federal had more markings around the head of the cases as compared to the others, the primers were not flattened like the others
Just a thought.....

-Rock

Tstras · Jan 28, 2011

Thanks again guys. I'm going to pick up some different brass soon and start over. I'll keep y'all posted.

WSM · Jan 28, 2011

God gave you two eyes for a reason...

Tstras · Feb 21, 2011

Just to give you all an update. I picked up some Remington brass, and tried my loads again. Everything went well, didn't see any marks on the brass. A few of them are pictured below.

So I'm assuming it was just soft brass. What do you all think?

Rockzilla · Feb 21, 2011

those seem to "look" a better, than the others, primers appear okay also.

Gotta love Federal brass...

-Rock

4g64loser · Feb 21, 2011

tstras.

Looks much better.

Ive gotten some R-P (remington) headstamp brass that's marked badly when there were no other signs of pressure present (my primers looked like yours and I measured the case and my headspace-no issues there). I won't use "FC" headstamp even if someone gives it to me. I'm careful with R-P too. Prefer LC military in .308 when I can get it for accurate loads and military surplus for blasting ammo (buzzguns).

If you are limited to commercially available cases and want the best, Norma or Lapua. I used Norma brass for my .308 Norma Mag til it got too expensive. Then i started making my own cases.

Lesson here is get premium brass for premium results---It's the only part you get to re-use.

Extractor Marks ?

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