New C&R guns

K31 · Jul 31, 2017

Bob A said:
I get it, you really really want a P7. Can't say as I blame you, but that boat sailed two years ago.

Really? Because I'm pretty sure I could buy one today.

Cheap and plentiful today often translates into scarce and pricey down the road.

So? Again, is C&R created for only the cheap and plentiful?

I still think the CZ P83 is a worthy candidate. Combloc's lengthy description of the pistol's design and execution argues strongly for inclusion.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=176043&highlight=p83

Great, tell me again where I bad mouthed your choice?

Bob A · Jul 31, 2017

K31 said:
Really? Because I'm pretty sure I could buy one today.

So? Again, is C&R created for only the cheap and plentiful?

Great, tell me again where I bad mouthed your choice?

Whoa!

Sure, you can buy a P7 today, for well over a grand. Couple years ago you could get one for about 650. Just saying.

Not created for the cheap and plentiful, but by the same token, cheap and plentiful drives purchase, and ultimately affects both price and availability. See P82 for a more recent example.

I didn't badmouth any choices, I just reiterated my thoughts on making P83 C&R.

Sorry if I irritated you.

LargemouthAss · Aug 1, 2017

I know many already are but all versions (excluding Legend series) of the Sig P210 and P47

Cadet08 · Aug 1, 2017

Bob A said:
I get it, you really really want a P7. Can't say as I blame you, but that boat sailed two years ago.

Cheap and plentiful today often translates into scarce and pricey down the road.

I still think the CZ P83 is a worthy candidate. Combloc's lengthy description of the pistol's design and execution argues strongly for inclusion.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=176043&highlight=p83

The CZ 82 is already C&R and it was made so by the same process I will be trying to take advantage of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_82

Bob A · Aug 1, 2017

Cadet08 said:
The CZ 82 is already C&R and it was made so by the same process I will be trying to take advantage of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_82

Good luck to you.

BTW, apologies for mis-identifying the P83. It is Polish, not made by CZ.

scjamesm · Aug 4, 2017

I'm still saying the Jericho 941, .41AE is definately a curios round and it would be nice to have something like this show up at one's door.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/675040140

dreadpirate · Aug 6, 2017

I'll take whatever I can get.

Jimbob2.0 · Aug 6, 2017

biermkr said:
The Medusa M-47

That one doesn't do much for us. No volume.

Mike OTDP · Aug 6, 2017

Hmm....My candidates would be as follows:

1. Smith & Wesson Model 39/439 modified to ASP configuration. The original concealed carry chop job, complete with unique Guttersnipe sight system.
2. I'd take a close look at the S&W Performance Center offerings. Most from the 1990s and 2000s were made in very limited numbers - 300-500 was normal.
3. The Polish P83 Wanad. Cold War relic firearm.
4. Cz-70. Another Cold War relic.
5. The P7 is interesting, but will be hard to pull off. Some of the low-production variants like the P7M10, P7M13, and P7K3 would have a better chance. Especially the P7K3 calibers in low production numbers...like .22LR.

Jimbob2.0 · Aug 6, 2017

Mike OTDP said:
Hmm....My candidates would be as follows:

1. Smith & Wesson Model 39/439 modified to ASP configuration. The original concealed carry chop job, complete with unique Guttersnipe sight system.
2. I'd take a close look at the S&W Performance Center offerings. Most from the 1990s and 2000s were made in very limited numbers - 300-500 was normal.
3. The Polish P83 Wanad. Cold War relic firearm.
4. Cz-70. Another Cold War relic.
5. The P7 is interesting, but will be hard to pull off. Some of the low-production variants like the P7M10, P7M13, and P7K3 would have a better chance. Especially the P7K3 calibers in low production numbers...like .22LR.

Here is a short practical list that would help historically interesting guns available in reasonable numbers get into the hands of collectors:

Bulgarian Makarov
FEG PA63
CZ70
PHP (successor to the P38)
CZ75 (at least Pre-B)
P83
Hungarian AP63
Star SuperB and all Bs

Docster · Aug 6, 2017

Get the job first......

Squaregrouper · Aug 6, 2017

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the H&K VP70z.
It is the original polymer pistol and pretty unique.

somd_mustangs · Aug 6, 2017

random though of the day...

Is it truly as simple as a curator waving their magic wand over a pistol and saying "I now declare thee C&R" ?
There has to be a more formal process with checks and balances (and consequences) otherwise we'd already be seeing tons of stuff - including many mentioned already.

Docster · Aug 13, 2017

somd_mustangs said:
random though of the day...

Is it truly as simple as a curator waving their magic wand over a pistol and saying "I now declare thee C&R" ?
There has to be a more formal process with checks and balances (and consequences) otherwise we'd already be seeing tons of stuff - including many mentioned already.

I suspect so...... Justification, Production Data, Country/Countries of Origin and a little thing called The Bureaucracy

K31 · Aug 13, 2017

§ 478.26 Curio and relic determination.

Any person who desires to obtain a determination whether a particular firearm is a curio or relic shall submit a written request, in duplicate, for a ruling thereon to the Director. Each such request shall be executed under the penalties of perjury and shall contain a complete and accurate description of the firearm, and such photographs, diagrams, or drawings as may be necessary to enable the Director to make a determination. The Director may require the submission of the firearm for examination and evaluation. If the submission of the firearm is impractical, the person requesting the determination shall so advise the Director and designate the place where the firearm will be available for examination and evaluation.

.

tallen702 · Aug 13, 2017

Yep, you have to send a sample in generally. Here's the thing where being a museum helps though. If you're an individual arguing for C&R status for a weapon, the FATD (Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division, Formerly FTB) will generally only grant status to your particular weapon, not all serial numbers, just YOURS. That's how a lot of those one-off serials or serial ranges hit the list. The difference is that if a state or federal museums requests status, it generally applies to the whole range. That's how the whole range of CZ-82s made it in apparently.

A regulation implementing Federal firearms laws, 27 CFR §478.11, defines Curio or Relic (C&R) firearms as those which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;

Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age. However, if you wish for a classification of your particular firearm under categories (b) or (c) above and wish your item to be listed, you may submit the weapon to the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) for a formal classification.

About 6 years ago I contacted the FATD about the PHP MV9 and MV17. It was explained to me that if I submitted a sample, they'd likely grant C&R status to that sample only. For whatever reason, a museum curator's opinion carries a lot more weight.

As for OP, be forewarned, they're going to want a sample of every one you ask to be put on the list.

rob b · Aug 13, 2017

sig p225/p6
Glock 17 gen1
ALL pinned barrel s@w revolvers
Just to name a few

somd_mustangs · Aug 13, 2017

That's how I thought it worked... it's not always palatable to send some ultra-rare stuff to get it approved (per the "derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre" clause).

New C&R guns

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

"Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"

όυ φροντισ

Active Member

Gone

όυ φροντισ

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Kragaphile

-----

Ultimate Member

"Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"

Ultimate Member

c@r collecting

-----

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics