When to Apply for MD Carry Permit

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  • trailman

    Active Member
    Nov 15, 2011
    631
    Frederick
    I've been following the case and am of the same mind. I don't need the training requirement however how long are the live scan prints good for?
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    Though this is just the sort of thing that a MDGA with their noses bent about this would change out of spite. They might see a forced "shall issue" condition as a playground for permits (with higher fees - ah, more sweet, sweet tax revenue!) that are only good for one year, always require the same or even more classroom time every year, require liability insurance, or who knows what. The state's general assembly has some history of considering literally spite-based vengeance legislation, and the Bloombots will be going full throttle convincing state legislators that it's Blood In The Streets! time, etc.

    Don't get me wrong: I'm hopeful that we get a shall issue state, and am thinking of asking the missus to consider a class soon - a definite gamble that the same training will suffice (you KNOW they're not going to lower the requirement), and that a revised system will still honor that training for long enough for the MSP to deal with the inevitable tidal wave of applications.

    The OP is asking a solid, sensible question ... I'm just not optimistic that this is going to be anything like throwing a light switch.

    I don't see it. after the SC issues a ruling, which presumably would also involve a remand for several other cases including the NJ magazine ban, I don't see them changing the training (for the worse). MD is already sixteen hours, among the longest. The sixteen itself is on thin ice. Most jurisdictions its 4 hours (or less and your hunting license counts) and MD will have a hard time justifying the 16. Right over the border in Northern Virginia, the training requirement is far less than MD. Nor do they require interviews. Now maybe they increase the fees on the theory they need to pay for officers or some shit. that I could see.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    I don't see it. after the SC issues a ruling, which presumably would also involve a remand for several other cases including the NJ magazine ban, I don't see them changing the training (for the worse). MD is already sixteen hours, among the longest. The sixteen itself is on thin ice. Most jurisdictions its 4 hours (or less and your hunting license counts) and MD will have a hard time justifying the 16. Right over the border in Northern Virginia, the training requirement is far less than MD. Nor do they require interviews. Now maybe they increase the fees on the theory they need to pay for officers or some shit. that I could see.
    Those are the next lawsuits. Onerous training for a fundamental right? Licensing and high fees for said license, again for a fundamental right? Nope. May not even need to get to the higher courts.

    The fight will be there, but once carry outside the home is found to be a right, a lot of their tactics become null and void. The more they fight, the more court cases will be found in our favor.
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    Those are the next lawsuits. Onerous training for a fundamental right? Licensing and high fees for said license, again for a fundamental right? Nope. May not even need to get to the higher courts.

    The fight will be there, but once carry outside the home is found to be a right, a lot of their tactics become null and void. The more they fight, the more court cases will be found in our favor.

    After NYSRPA, it would be foolish for jurisdictions to play chicken with the Supreme Court.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,230
    Montgomery County
    After NYSRPA, it would be foolish for jurisdictions to play chicken with the Supreme Court.

    Referring to the case that got mooted and got us nowhere?

    I would absolutely expect MD to try that same sort of needle-threading. We'll see!
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Referring to the case that got mooted and got us nowhere?

    I would absolutely expect MD to try that same sort of needle-threading. We'll see!

    Well, carry outside the home hadn’t been decided yet!! Be optimistic, my friend!!
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,230
    Montgomery County
    Well, carry outside the home hadn’t been decided yet!! Be optimistic, my friend!!

    Nobody who's ever met me would think I'm the optimist I actually am. But if anything has ever come close to robbing me of that trait, it's been me tearing back the curtain over the last several years and watching Maryland's treatment of the Second Amendment, up close and in all its gruesome, juvenile, sleazy detail.

    My optimism prevails, so far! Just bracing for the usual headwinds. But I like how you think.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Nobody who's ever met me would think I'm the optimist I actually am. But if anything has ever come close to robbing me of that trait, it's been me tearing back the curtain over the last several years and watching Maryland's treatment of the Second Amendment, up close and in all its gruesome, juvenile, sleazy detail.

    My optimism prevails, so far! Just bracing for the usual headwinds. But I like how you think.

    Yeah, I know what you mean. Fingers crossed SCOTUS gets it right.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,876
    Smart money is on the Plaintiffs " winning " , particularly with NY's concession that Right to Carry Outside the Home exists . The big questions are the fine print of the decision , and the Standard of Review mandated .

    *************************************

    There are ( at least) three Jurisdictions currently pushing the limits as to how onerous the process can be , and still be Shall Issue ( and two of them became Shall Issue by court decisions ) .

    *****************************

    Previous Suits notwithstanding , the basic math principle remain .

    Md's W&C process is time consuming to both the applicant and the Government , with lots of investigative man hours involved .

    By the experience of other Shall Issue States , permit holders can reach 10% or more of overall population . Expensive/ time consuming process ( comparitive by normal standards) are a factor reducing applications . But conversely , the degree of freedom w/o a permit can increase or decrease demand .

    Example : Prior to Kentucky going Shall Issue , Open Carry , and loaded carry in glove compartments were legal w/o a Permit , and X% of population were reasonably satisfied with that .

    Since Md is highly restrictive w/o W&C , that factor would increase demand , offsetting the time & money hassle .


    Long way around to saying , that when Md becomes Shall Issue , a conservative estimate is 10 to 15 times higher workload for MSP LD than current . The MGA changing the process to be " less through " is about as likely to as my encountering a Woolly Mamoth scampering with a Velociraptor on the way home today .

    MGA increasing MSP budget to cover expanding LD by factor of ten , is slightly less impossible .

    Of course we all know that in other States , the CCW process is much closer to Md's HQL process than the W&C .
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    By the experience of other Shall Issue States , permit holders can reach 10% or more of overall population ..

    well, my amateur experience in MD so far is that 10% of the population is carrying, it's just the wrong 10%
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,172
    Outside the Gates
    Those are the next lawsuits. ... The more they fight, the more court cases will be found in our favor.

    This is true and we have seen them back off of some possible appeals for fear of precedence being set for even more pro 2A decisions.

    In general, though, the MGA is neither known for intelligence, nor willingness to abide by the US Constitution. In the past we have seen they have more fear of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) than the Constitution.

    Let's hope the decision is worded widely enough to include us
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    Difference between SD and Maryland, is that Maryland has a timeframe codifid in State Statute, California does not.

    If they have to abide by the time frame, hard to see how the interview process stays.
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,002
    Harford County
    If they have to abide by the time frame, hard to see how the interview process stays.

    I don't see what the point of the interview process will be anyway. The entire purpose of it is to intimidate the applicant and look for a reason to deny the permit. If things go our way the process will be entirely objective, no need for extra added ********.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    I don't see what the point of the interview process will be anyway. The entire purpose of it is to intimidate the applicant and look for a reason to deny the permit. If things go our way the process will be entirely objective, no need for extra added ********.

    Yep. All they gotta do is check your criminal record. If there is none, you can’t be denied. No more involved than buying a handgun. If you can buy it, you can carry it.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,876
    That's how it ought to be , and * maybe * so explicitly stated in SCOTUS decision . Leaving a window for " propensity for violence " or " good character " , could still present possibility of investigation beyond just Criminal Background check .
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    So this shirt during my interview would be a good choice.

    HR4VLBLK100_400x.jpg
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    That's how it ought to be , and * maybe * so explicitly stated in SCOTUS decision . Leaving a window for " propensity for violence " or " good character " , could still present possibility of investigation beyond just Criminal Background check .

    Good luck with using subjective metrics to determine who qualifies to exercise a Constitutional right.
     

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