Oddball Arisaka - Type 44/38 "Seinen" Carbine

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  • KH195

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 10, 2013
    1,553
    Virginia
    Scored this rare little guy on Gunbroker at a very cheap price and it just arrived tonight. Although this carbine looks like something out of Bubba's workshop (and I think that's what the seller thought too) everything you see here is WWII era Japanese craftsmanship!

    This started life as an early first variation Tokyo Type 44 carbine. It saw so much hard use and service that it was pulled from the field and converted to a Type 38 configuration before being issued to a Youth training center. These early war Youth centers (Seinen Kuren-jo 青年訓練所) preceded the Youth School (Seinen Gakko 青年学校), and were very short-lived. These are much more scarce than the fairly common "School marked" Arisakas (from the Youth Schools), easily distinguishable by the 文 ("education") kanji added to the top of the receiver near the type markings.

    The features changed during the conversion were:
    1.) Bayonet assembly and housing removed
    2.) New, unique front and rear barrel bands added
    3.) Bayonet channel filled with wood plug
    4.) Rear sling swivel filled with plug and relocated to the bottom of the stock like a T38
    5.) "S" prefix added to serial number
    6.) 青 (sei - meaning Youth) kanji added to the top of the receiver
    7.) Mum canceled with the Tokyo/Kokura stacked cannonball stamp (to show it has been removed from normal military service)
    8.) New front sight

    Also neat on this one and consistent with the extensive service it saw, the left side of the stock at the finger groove is VERY worn from years of wear due to being slung over the back of a cavalry soldier. This feature is seen fairly often on these earlier first variation T44's. I can find evidence of about 5 of these "Seinen" rifles that have been reported (may be a little more, but only 2 are listed in Frank Allan's T38 Arisaka book), so definitely a seldom seem Arisaka variation!
     

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    KH195

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 10, 2013
    1,553
    Virginia
    Is that a Turkish Mauser upper band/bayonet lug?

    It's Japanese, although I'm not sure if they modeled after something like that or not. It's a known variation of Japanese front band, it appears on some other pre-WWII Japanese rifles although the specific models are escaping me right now
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,736
    That is very cool !
    Knowledge is Power (and power is holy).

    didn't notice at first but it even has a dust cover.
    are these rifles force-matched or just assembled with whatever was at hand?
     

    KH195

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 10, 2013
    1,553
    Virginia
    That is very cool !
    Knowledge is Power (and power is holy).

    didn't notice at first but it even has a dust cover.
    are these rifles force-matched or just assembled with whatever was at hand?

    Typically with the youth/school guns it seems they grabbed the most serviceable parts from a pile of similar guns on hand. Didn't expect this one to match in the least, and it does not. Bolt assembly matches itself but everything else is mixed. To support the claim of the most serviceable parts on hand being used though, the hand guard and stock on this one have different numbers, so the hand guard (and it's uniquely cut for this modification) was likely swapped out at the time of conversion like the other various parts.
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,736
    Makes sense...

    I've given up any pretense of not collecting Japanese firearms.
    For me, the battle is lost.
     

    MilsurpDan

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 1, 2012
    2,217
    Frederick County
    Welp, learn something new everyday. Cool rifle. I actually saw one of these at the last Chantilly show I went to over the summer and didn't realize they were rare even though I'd never seen one before. Forget how much the guy wanted for it, but I just gave it a glance since I'm not really interested in the school rifles. Guess I mighta made a mistake.
     

    KH195

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 10, 2013
    1,553
    Virginia
    Welp, learn something new everyday. Cool rifle. I actually saw one of these at the last Chantilly show I went to over the summer and didn't realize they were rare even though I'd never seen one before. Forget how much the guy wanted for it, but I just gave it a glance since I'm not really interested in the school rifles. Guess I mighta made a mistake.

    Interesting, I'm going to head down to the Chantilly show tomorrow, will have to check to see if by chance it's there again. When I came across this one on GB I didn't imediately know what it was either, just saw the added kanji on the receiver (which I hadn't ever seen before) l thought it might be something special and pulled the books out. I'm not big into school rifles either but the rarity sold me on this one. Who knows though, likely more of them out there but I bet a lot are brushed off as Bubba pieces.
     

    KH195

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 10, 2013
    1,553
    Virginia
    Welp, learn something new everyday. Cool rifle. I actually saw one of these at the last Chantilly show I went to over the summer and didn't realize they were rare even though I'd never seen one before. Forget how much the guy wanted for it, but I just gave it a glance since I'm not really interested in the school rifles. Guess I mighta made a mistake.

    Went to the Chantilly show today, didn't see the T44 so likely long gone. As a matter of fact, very slim pickings for Japanese arms in general. I counted only about a half dozen or so Arisakas, most of which were either Bubba'd, way overpriced, or both. Couple decent T14 Nambus, but nothing worth getting. There was a pretty nice Type 97 sniper with scope, but it was priced at $5,600 so I didn't look long. I did, however, score a nice complete and all original Japanese Type 99 "Kiska" grenade (inert of course). Been looking for one for my Japanese ordnance collection and surprisingly found this little guy at a table right after going in the door. A hard to find a WWII grenade, these were first encountered by U.S. forces during the battle for Kiska Island in the Aleutian campaign, hence the name.
     

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    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,355
    Catonsville
    Just when I thought I'd seen all the variations of Japanese small arms of this era.
    Thanks for the education! Now I have something else to keep an eye out for...
     

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