Semi-Wadcutters in Semi's

C&RTactical · Nov 4, 2014

I just spent several hours scouring the internet and I am getting answers all over the place. So coming back here for something more local. Since I do a lot of paper killing I thought it would be nice to punch cleaner holes with swc's. Though I have heard that they take some tinkering to load cycle reliably. So what is everyone's experience with SWC's in semi's. I am thinking of buying a bunch from Missouri Bullet Company for 9mm and .45. The handguns in question will be a Remington 1911 R1 Stainless, M&P9 Pro, and M&P Shield. In terms of .45 what I read is that 185 grainers require a lot more tinkering where as 200 grainers are pretty much gtg when loaded to the right OAL. I assume with the M&P's as long as I follow the right setting of bullets they should work without any fuss. I remember reading that is best to have just a small amount of the bullet poking out of the casing and not flush with it.

So that is what I know so far and what I intend to work with. Enlighten me with your real life experiences on these details and if they worked for you.

DaemonAssassin · Nov 4, 2014

No experience with SWC's, but I see a lot of FTF's in your future as you try to find the correct OAL to get reliable cycling.

FlatsFlite · Nov 4, 2014

A 200 SWC over Clays is my most accurate load for the XDm. Always end your range session with four or five jacketed bullets. This will keeping your barrel from leading.

Biggfoot44 · Nov 4, 2014

The legendry H&G 68 200grswc was designed specifically to feed and give good accuraccy in 1911's . Many subsequent 200swc's , and most commercial cast 200 swc are closely modeled upon it.

Biggfoot44 · Nov 4, 2014

( Hit send too soon )

Before jhp were perfected , for many years they were also considered primo bullets for defense and hunting.

Mikey · Nov 4, 2014

I have had no problems with any bullet profile in my M&P 9mm Pro. I'm sure the Missouri bullets will do fine.

As for your 1911, I far prefer 200gr SWC or 230gr RN over the 185gr especially if you are using that gun to compete and must make power factor.

If you are looking at lead I would recommend you check out some of the coated lead offerings by Bayou Bullets and SNS Castings. For about the same price as lead you can get them and not have to deal with the lead mess. Almost every lead shooter I know has converted to a coated lead bullet because there just isn't any downside.

shooting again · Nov 4, 2014

Expect to do a lot of fiddling with the magazine, feed throat, and recoil springs to tune the gun so it works reliably with the SWC.

inkd · Nov 4, 2014

C&RTactical said:
I just spent several hours scouring the internet and I am getting answers all over the place. So coming back here for something more local. Since I do a lot of paper killing I thought it would be nice to punch cleaner holes with swc's. Though I have heard that they take some tinkering to load cycle reliably. So what is everyone's experience with SWC's in semi's. I am thinking of buying a bunch from Missouri Bullet Company for 9mm and .45. The handguns in question will be a Remington 1911 R1 Stainless, M&P9 Pro, and M&P Shield. In terms of .45 what I read is that 185 grainers require a lot more tinkering where as 200 grainers are pretty much gtg when loaded to the right OAL. I assume with the M&P's as long as I follow the right setting of bullets they should work without any fuss. I remember reading that is best to have just a small amount of the bullet poking out of the casing and not flush with it.

So that is what I know so far and what I intend to work with. Enlighten me with your real life experiences on these details and if they worked for you.

Follow the loading manual for overall length with the SWC as a starting point. If you have a bullet puller, load some rounds with no powder or primer to the overall length you want and use the crimp you want. Load them up in a magazine and see if they will feed, extract and eject by cycling the slide by hand. Odds are if they won't function that way, they won't function if you are shooting them.

Cast bullets are great to use, just keep the pressures down and make sure the bullet is hard enough for what you want to use it for and you shouldn't have any problems with leading. I also went to Bayou Bullets, mainly because they don't smoke at all while shooting. Their bullet lube is fantastic. I've heard from friends of mine that they had small increases in velocity using the same powder charge after switching to Bayou Bullets.

Your 1911 may need some work to run reliably. Most feed ramps in production guns are not cut deep enough or at the correct angle. Barrel throats are usually okay but need some polishing and "softening" of the transition point from the throat to chamber. If those are all correctly done, your gun should run any ammo you feed it. I would highly advise not trying any of that work yourself.

If it is going to be a competition gun and you want to run a load that just barely makes power factor, you may have to change springs out but if you are running a mid range load, full power springs should be just fine.

I run a 230gr RN bullet with 4gr of Clays and it works just fine in every 1911 I have.

edrod68 · Nov 4, 2014

Been using 200 SWC in my Glock 21 since last year. I made sure I loaded to the recommended COL and have had ZERO feed issues with them.

Still chasing the best load now that I finally found some Bullseye powder, but they have been fine for me so far... and accurate as well...

1time · Nov 4, 2014

I use 200SWC in my Glock 21, RIA 1911 and STI Trojan. Loaded to book spec and powder charge and it worked from the start in all three.

Magnumite · Nov 4, 2014

I would stick with the 200 grainer SWC as well. The H&G 68 configuration has worked best for me. Plated bullets such as Rainers and Extreme can be problematic because of their lower friction coefficient so absolute minimal flare for seating and OAL must be right. I am running 1.250" now, longer than I care for but works with those bullets. As mentioned your gun's feed ramp and barrel throat may not be ideal. Bullet up jambs may indicate a later release mag is necessary.

HogCommander · Nov 4, 2014

OP...I've fired a few thousand of Missouri's 45 ACP "Bullseye #2" 185 LSWC bullets for Bullseye practice and competition in multiple different 1911s. Have tried other brands of lead SWCs in both 185 grain (including short nose "button" style) and 200 grain. In short, lead SWCs for 45 ACP are reliable, accurate, and cheap to shoot. No experience with 9mm so can't help there.

Have been very happy with Missouri bullets for 45 ACP out to 25 yards but should mention that mine are reduced recoil loads intended for maximum accuracy and recoil control rather than power factor.

If you're looking for accuracy and mild recoil, consider a starting point of 3.7 grains of Bullseye and work your way up to what your gun likes. For COAL, suggest loading some dummy rounds with about a "fingernail's worth" of the bullet's shoulder exposed above the case mouth as a starting point. You need a little bit of the bullet protruding from the case mouth for reliable feeding.

For the Bullseye #2 bullets, suggest a COAL of 1.250" to start with. I test these kinds of dummy rounds for reliability by manually cycling them from a magazine and also by removing the barrel and dropping them into the chamber. I compare how they seat in the chamber in the drop test to factory SWC rounds (Federal Gold Medal Match) dropped into the same chamber by looking at the case rim in relation to the aft end of the barrel hood. When I do this, I'm just looking to emulate how the factory round goes into the chamber and how deep it goes....doesn't guarantee flawless reliability but gives you a starting point. If my dummy rounds don't seat as deep as factory rounds, I adjust seating depth.

Crimp is also a factor...I use 0.470" at the case mouth as a point of departure. My goal is to not over-crimp to avoid gas getting past the bullet upon ignition but also not under-crimp to the point where the case mouth still has a bell and the rounds won't feed reliably.

Happy to provide more data/experience if desired...just PM me and will provide as much info as I can. Bottom line is that it's very easy to develop LSWC loads that are very accurate and reliable that you can load for about $0.15/round at today's prices.

Pinecone · Nov 5, 2014

My experience has been mainly with 1911s. Modern ones are throated for semi wad cutter bullets and feed them fine. I have shot literally 10s of thousands of them through 1911s without issues.

Early 1911s, or based on the original design do need some tuning for them.

You also need one of the longer SWC designs for perfectly reliable feeding. Most 200 grain .452 lead SWC bullets are based on the H&G 68 design, which feeds fine in most pistols. The 180/185 grain SWC bullets are a bit stubby and can have issues in some pistols.

My wife and a friend have shot thousands of them in Sig 229 .40 S&W pistols also.

Picture: Throated barrel (good for SWC bullets) on Right - Unthroated Barrel on Left

DocAitch · Nov 9, 2014

The only .45ACP pistol that I have ever reloaded for that had difficulty with SWCs is my CZ97( for which there is now a replacement barrel with a different angle feed ramp). My 1911, Glock 21, and H&K all fed/feed SWC (with a proper OAL) without difficulty.
DocAitch

sgt23preston · Nov 9, 2014

I use semi-wad cutters in both my 1911's, my 45 & my 9mm...

I use 200 grain SWC's in my 45 & 124 grain "flat points" in my 9mm...

I load Berry's Copper Plated Bullets = feeds better than pure lead bullets...

Both of my pistols are "modern" guns that came with polished feed ramps...

I've never had a mis-feed with either pistol...

I honestly don't know how they would feed in basic GI models though...

Bolts Rock · Nov 9, 2014

I'm down to the last 500 or so bullets (actually rounds now) from a 500 pound casting run I did 25 years ago. No major hiccups and only a couple minor ones from funk build up in my 1911. The bullet is the 200gr SWC from RCBS molds.

inkd · Nov 10, 2014

Bolts Rock said:
I'm down to the last 500 or so bullets (actually rounds now) from a 500 pound casting run I did 25 years ago. No major hiccups and only a couple minor ones from funk build up in my 1911. The bullet is the 200gr SWC from RCBS molds.

Holy crap man, 500lbs!!!!!! That is awesome!!!!!

:party29:

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