.45 Long Colt for Deer Hunting

Uncle Duke · Oct 28, 2021

lazarus said:
He mentioned hard cast. That’s not considered expanding.

Hard cast can and does take many forms, but we're off on enough tangents.

It's considered lead alloy. As lead alloy, it is specifically legal.

Except in Dorchester County where #1 buckshot or larger may be used, firearms used for deer hunting may only shoot one all lead, lead alloy or copper soft nosed or expanding bullet or ball. Sabots are permitted. Non-expanding full metal jacketed, incendiary and tracer bullets are not permitted.

Maki · Oct 29, 2021

Uncle Duke said:
Hard cast can and does take many forms, but we're off on enough tangents.

It's considered lead alloy. As lead alloy, it is specifically legal.

Except in Dorchester County where #1 buckshot or larger may be used, firearms used for deer hunting may only shoot one all lead, lead alloy or copper soft nosed or expanding bullet or ball. Sabots are permitted. Non-expanding full metal jacketed, incendiary and tracer bullets are not permitted.

Why isn't incendiary permitted? Nothing like a little pre-cook. :lol:

Also, since it doesn't seem viable, especially with regs here in MD, I'll probably just stick to the shottys or pick up a 350 Legend AR for this season.

Park ranger · Oct 29, 2021

23 grains of imr 4227 with a 325 grain slamer will develop plenty of energy, and recoil. Hope to use it one day.

lazarus · Oct 29, 2021

Uncle Duke said:
Hard cast can and does take many forms, but we're off on enough tangents.

It's considered lead alloy. As lead alloy, it is specifically legal.

Except in Dorchester County where #1 buckshot or larger may be used, firearms used for deer hunting may only shoot one all lead, lead alloy or copper soft nosed or expanding bullet or ball. Sabots are permitted. Non-expanding full metal jacketed, incendiary and tracer bullets are not permitted.

Well, yup. I appreciate reposting it. I completely forgot the or’s on there. You are right

Uncle Duke · Oct 29, 2021

lazarus said:
Well, yup. I appreciate reposting it. I completely forgot the or’s on there. You are right

No biggie. One just about has to be a lawyer, if you want to hunt or fish nowadays.

Doctor_M · Oct 30, 2021

Uncle Duke said:
No biggie. One just about has to be a lawyer, if you want to hunt or fish nowadays.

And isn't that a little sad...

American Defender · Oct 30, 2021

AlBeight said:
I don’t believe your “single weapon” rule is correct, not to deer firearms season anyway. You can’t carry a 30-30 while squirrel hunting, in the off chance a deer steps out, the bow part you cited correctly as it’s only allowed for self protection. Why couldn’t you carry a regulation compliant handgun while you have a rifle during deer firearms season, so long as it’s a rifle county? I don’t see any regulations in the book prohibiting that. Please state the rule as written in the handbook.

That's a first heard for me as well. I've been hunting in MD for 40 years-and still suck at it

As long as it was a legal hunting device. Used to be a NOGO carrying a firearm while bow-hunting, but the changed that about 7 years ago. I used hunt Greenridge (along with nearly everyone else in MD/PA/WV), and used to also carry the .44 Dan Wesson (6") outside on hip or the scoped Ruger (10.5) during firearms season while carrying my rifle. Why..because I could. No DNR issues as long as they were legal during the firearms season. Nowadays, I'd probably just take the trapper out, but in my backyard versus public areas that sound like Beirut.

American Defender · Oct 30, 2021

Uncle Duke said:
Cast lead bullets are indeed legal for deer hunting in Maryland. It is full metal jacketed ammunition that is considered non-expanding and thus illegal.

Correct. Cast is OK.

FMJ is a NOGO.

BTW, I cast my .44 Mags (LEE 310 FP) to about 11-12 BHN. Run them over 21g 296, push them out of a Dan Wesson 6", Ruger 10.5, 20" Win 94, and 16" Win 94 Trapper.
Most of the egg-heads on other forums say they should not stabilize out of the long twist of the Winchesters, but they are still nose first at 100. (But do drop a good bit from 50 to 100) which I'm OK with since most shots I take are 25-35 due to terrain.

American Defender · Oct 30, 2021

And they could use a better technical writer. I remember the hunting reg used to be only a few pages that you could fold and put w/your license. Now they have the magazine, all the adds. Nice magazine, but poor/confusing writing.

Maki · Oct 30, 2021

Quick update from my end. Was shopping around for a 45-70 since I'm not really interested in building a 350 Legend, and managed to find a Henry Big Boy in .45LC for a good price. From other owners messaging Henry, they can handle the +P rounds, so I'll just use that this season and keep the Uberti and Cowboy rounds for the range.

Archeryrob · Oct 31, 2021

Maki said:
Quick update from my end. Was shopping around for a 45-70 since I'm not really interested in building a 350 Legend, and managed to find a Henry Big Boy in .45LC for a good price. From other owners messaging Henry, they can handle the +P rounds, so I'll just use that this season and keep the Uberti and Cowboy rounds for the range.

45-70 Government, which I think is what you call cowboy rounds is supposed to have over 400 grain bullet, 1500 ft lbs at 1400 fps. Double what the DNR requires. +p was a 300 grain bullet, 3500+ ft lbs and 2200 fps. I, personally, think I would rather shoot my food with the slower round. 300 grains at 2200 fps might destroy too much meat for me in a shoulder.

American Defender said:
And they could use a better technical writer. I remember the hunting reg used to be only a few pages that you could fold and put w/your license. Now they have the magazine, all the adds. Nice magazine, but poor/confusing writing.

Very true, that guide seems to be written to be difficult to understand. As if they want to make it easier to write paying papers.

John from MD · Oct 31, 2021

Maki said:
Quick update from my end. Was shopping around for a 45-70 since I'm not really interested in building a 350 Legend, and managed to find a Henry Big Boy in .45LC for a good price. From other owners messaging Henry, they can handle the +P rounds, so I'll just use that this season and keep the Uberti and Cowboy rounds for the range.

Which Henry did you get?

John from MD · Oct 31, 2021

Archeryrob said:
45-70 Government, which I think is what you call cowboy rounds is supposed to have over 400 grain bullet, 1500 ft lbs at 1400 fps. Double what the DNR requires. +p was a 300 grain bullet, 3500+ ft lbs and 2200 fps. I, personally, think I would rather shoot my food with the slower round. 300 grains at 2200 fps might destroy too much meat for me in a shoulder.

Very true, that guide seems to be written to be difficult to understand. As if they want to make it easier to write paying papers.

The Country is being run by lawyers, what did you expect? :innocent0

Uncle Duke · Oct 31, 2021

Maki said:
Quick update from my end. Was shopping around for a 45-70 since I'm not really interested in building a 350 Legend, and managed to find a Henry Big Boy in .45LC for a good price. From other owners messaging Henry, they can handle the +P rounds, so I'll just use that this season and keep the Uberti and Cowboy rounds for the range.

OP, your mention got me to looking again. I am seeing specific mention of the Henry Big Boy as being an acceptable rifle with Buffalo Bore's 260 grain "Deer Grenade" round in 45 Colt. The Deer Grenade" round is listed as a +P offering with a cast bullet hardness of 12BHN. As cast bullets go, this is relatively soft, and undoubtedly shaped and cast at 12 with termimal performance in mind. Note the manufacturer's performance comments.

I have looked at the Buffalo bore offerings in the past, and have never before seen the Henry Big Boy mentioned by name. Perhaps I overlooked it, and that's entirely possible. But I also note that the Henry Big Boy is the very last rifle entry mentioned on their list as being deemed acceptable by Buffalo Bore. So perhaps it is a more recent addition? I can't say, but in any event, it's there. And that's good to see IMO.

This round would definitely meet Maryland deer energy regulations in your Henry rifle.

GOOD LUCK with your new rifle!

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=335

John from MD · Oct 31, 2021

The only possible issue I could see with the Deer Grenade is the Semi Wadcutter shoulder. Not all lever actions will feed them smoothly. You can usually work the lever a few times and get the round in the chamber but you really don't want to do that when hunting. I have adjusted the guide plates in Winchester 92's to feed the heavier .45 bullets in the years before the round flat nose came back into style but it is not a job for everyone.

The Grizzly feeds nicely in the few guns I have shot it out of. Warning, don't shoot it with a metal butt plate unless you have a thick coat on.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001464637?pid=782723

Biggfoot44 · Oct 31, 2021

At a lower price point , Georgia Arms has a " Deer Stopper " .45 Colt +P with 260 jhp . But as of the most recent Chantilly show they told me the bullet supplier was backordered , and they can't get the bullets right now .

****************

" Cowboy " .45-70 is loaded extra mild for competitive purposes .

Traditional mainstream factory loads include 405 SP @ 1300 , and 300 jhp @ 1600-1700 . The 300 is designed to expand on deer . At factory velocity , the 405 SP will usually penetrate like the old school issue BP rounds .

The boutique rounds and handloads have infinite possibilities .

As to Big Boy rifles , the usual rule of thumb is if the same rifle is simultaneously chambered for .44 Mag , it can handle published " Ruger & T/C Only " loads up to 30k - ish .

Maki · Nov 1, 2021

Archeryrob said:
45-70 Government, which I think is what you call cowboy rounds is supposed to have over 400 grain bullet, 1500 ft lbs at 1400 fps. Double what the DNR requires. +p was a 300 grain bullet, 3500+ ft lbs and 2200 fps. I, personally, think I would rather shoot my food with the slower round. 300 grains at 2200 fps might destroy too much meat for me in a shoulder.

Very true, that guide seems to be written to be difficult to understand. As if they want to make it easier to write paying papers.

Nah, I'm referring to the 45lc rounds that are Cowboy Action, so less powder for more manageable recoil in Cowboy events.

John from MD said:
Which Henry did you get?

Big Boy Classic in 45LC. The Brass receiver was a must for a Lever imo

Uncle Duke said:
OP, your mention got me to looking again. I am seeing specific mention of the Henry Big Boy as being an acceptable rifle with Buffalo Bore's 260 grain "Deer Grenade" round in 45 Colt. The Deer Grenade" round is listed as a +P offering with a cast bullet hardness of 12BHN. As cast bullets go, this is relatively soft, and undoubtedly shaped and cast at 12 with termimal performance in mind. Note the manufacturer's performance comments.

I have looked at the Buffalo bore offerings in the past, and have never before seen the Henry Big Boy mentioned by name. Perhaps I overlooked it, and that's entirely possible. But I also note that the Henry Big Boy is the very last rifle entry mentioned on their list as being deemed acceptable by Buffalo Bore. So perhaps it is a more recent addition? I can't say, but in any event, it's there. And that's good to see IMO.

This round would definitely meet Maryland deer energy regulations in your Henry rifle.

GOOD LUCK with your new rifle!

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=335

Biggfoot44 said:
At a lower price point , Georgia Arms has a " Deer Stopper " .45 Colt +P with 260 jhp . But as of the most recent Chantilly show they told me the bullet supplier was backordered , and they can't get the bullets right now .

****************

" Cowboy " .45-70 is loaded extra mild for competitive purposes .

Traditional mainstream factory loads include 405 SP @ 1300 , and 300 jhp @ 1600-1700 . The 300 is designed to expand on deer . At factory velocity , the 405 SP will usually penetrate like the old school issue BP rounds .

The boutique rounds and handloads have infinite possibilities .

As to Big Boy rifles , the usual rule of thumb is if the same rifle is simultaneously chambered for .44 Mag , it can handle published " Ruger & T/C Only " loads up to 30k - ish .

I've been looking at the Hornady Leverevolution rounds, however, it seems most hunting 45LC stuff is out of stock everywhere. I found the Leverevolution bullets for reloading in stock so I'm currently building a shopping list of reloading stuff since I shoot a lot of 9mm and also looking at going hunting with .308 for larger game up North. I know it would be super beneficial to be able to reload my own rounds as well as cheaper. Also looking at potentially getting into casting my own bullets. Thankfully there's tons of information online to learn from.

John from MD · Nov 1, 2021

Maki said:
Nah, I'm referring to the 45lc rounds that are Cowboy Action, so less powder for more manageable recoil in Cowboy events.

Big Boy Classic in 45LC. The Brass receiver was a must for a Lever imo

I've been looking at the Hornady Leverevolution rounds, however, it seems most hunting 45LC stuff is out of stock everywhere. I found the Leverevolution bullets for reloading in stock so I'm currently building a shopping list of reloading stuff since I shoot a lot of 9mm and also looking at going hunting with .308 for larger game up North. I know it would be super beneficial to be able to reload my own rounds as well as cheaper. Also looking at potentially getting into casting my own bullets. Thankfully there's tons of information online to learn from.

Leverrevolution only gave me 2 inch groups at 50 yards off the bench in my Rossi. I wasn't greatly impressed.

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