Shooting fox vermin on our farm?

danb · May 22, 2019

For an expert I'd say 22lR. For an inexperienced hunter I would not suggest it personally. With the right shot you can take deer with a .22lR too, but I would not recommend it either.

I have seen a lot of raccoons and groundhogs escape .22lR. Follow up shots are easy with 22LR, if they stand still, but they usually don't. Then you have a dog digging a hole trying to get a wounded animal that ran under or into something. Or vultures, coyotes, or other foxes. Been there, done that. Nothing of course is foolproof. I have also seen 175lb bucks walk away from a 12 gauge at 20 yds (even though I hit the liver, it was through-and through, probably the slug did not expand). Conversely I've dropped deer where they stood with a crossbow.

Shot placement is always key, but a bigger cartridge is more forgiving of poor shot placement. What you pick should reflect your appetite for tracking wounded animals or regret ("There is a lot of fur did you hit them in the right place?"). 12 or 20 ga is great, cant go wrong there. But slugs are expensive and its hard on the shoulder. For inexperienced hunters I generally recommend the biggest rifle/shotgun you can handle/afford because tracking wounded animals is a real PITA.

Moorvogi · May 22, 2019

cww said:
A .22mag easily takes out foxes and groundhogs, ammo is not outrageous, low recoil. If there are den holes it shouldn’t be hard to take them out, just have to have the time and patience to sit on them

For my farm in carrol county I use a 55gr 22-250.... or a 220gr 300win mag... both do the job past 500 yards.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sleepy · May 23, 2019

DC-Choppah said:
Thanks for that: https://www.southernstates.com/catalog/product/p-367-revenge-rodent-smoke-bomb-4pk

We will try this to start to get them to go away for now. I assume, they will be returning soon though. By then we should be prepared to shoot them.

There are dens all over the place around here. I will try smoking out all the dens on my property and try to get the neighbors to do it too. But I assume they will just build new dens.

Does anyone here think Coyote urine is a good idea? I am thinking after I smoke them out, we can sprinkle the Coyote litter on the dens.

There's always the Carl Spackler method...

DC-Choppah · May 24, 2019

Clovis said:
Curious as to how large your farm is?

We are 4 acres. 3 pastures and one barn.

We border on a larger farm of 100 acre + behind us and other 5+ acre lots and horse farms along the road.

DC-Choppah · May 24, 2019

benton0311 said:
You know, one of those Savage .22/20 ga combos would be a perfect one-gun solution. United Gunshop in Rockville has one listed:
https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=179463&page=291

Top of post 2909. One gun to cover all of your vermin extermination needs and extremely simple for the inexperienced shooter. Already scoped. .22LR High Velocity and 20 gauge both would take care of foxes, plus you could use rat shot in the barn if you ever have a rodent problem and .22 shorts or .22 Quiets for noise free plinking of tin cans in the back yard.

So that's a .22 rifle with a scope AND a 20 ga shotgun at the same time! Hmmm. Interesting. Thanks for that option. That's new to me.

When the fox is in front of the barn, I would rather try and use the rifle so as to not spray the barn with shot.

Is it heavy? Like the weight of both at the same time?

RossL · May 24, 2019

I have a similar situation in Western HoCo. We have a large fox that is very mangy (no idea if rabid) and turning into a nuisance. Looks to me I can shoot it as long as I abide by the following but any advice would be appreciated.

https://apps.howardcountymd.gov/olis/GetFile.aspx?id=5919

Section 8.401. Discharge of guns--Prohibited
[[(d)]] (E) This section shall not apply to:
(3) The discharge of guns where necessary to protect life or [[property]]
PROPERTY, INCLUDING CROPS OR LIVESTOCK, or to kill any dangerous
threatening animal;

Clovis · May 24, 2019

DC-Choppah said:
We are 4 acres. 3 pastures and one barn.

We border on a larger farm of 100 acre + behind us and other 5+ acre lots and horse farms along the road.

To me that seems small(not to insult or disparage). Depending on layout and topography(hills) anything over a .22 might have something go out of the property with out careful aiming and a natural backstop. A shotgun may be a better choice.

budman93 · May 24, 2019

Clovis said:
To me that seems small(not to insult or disparage). Depending on layout and topography(hills) anything over a .22 might have something go out of the property with out careful aiming and a natural backstop. A shotgun may be a better choice.

it is small to be shooting. he will need to be extra careful and may need permission from neighbors depending on the layout of the houses.

DC-Choppah · May 24, 2019

303_enfield said:
DNR will issue a nuisance animal permit. A .22lr will work fine. I use a Ruger 10/22 for egg eaters an chicken killers. If you see dens in the barn you don't need a gun. Get some locking snare traps.
https://www.flemingoutdoors.com/snares.html

Watch youtube about setting snare or foothold traps since you know where they are living.

Hmmm. Snare traps and foothold traps appear to be illegal in Montgomery county. http://www.eregulations.com/maryland/hunting/furbearer-hunting-trapping/

DNR is telling me that the trapping permit they can give me for nuisance fox is only for the cage trap that they say fox will NOT go into. So it is useless for fox.

WildWeasel · May 24, 2019

Clovis said:
Sounds like you have a population level that has the whole neighborhood impacted/infested. I would suggest using rimfire rifles with scopes. .22 or if you prefer a .22 magnum should have lethal results at the ranges you're talking about (sounds like about 40 yards or so) or look at the .17machII or the .17 HMR. These would be quiet-er than a shotgun, easier to shoot and less expensive to feed ammo to practice. A bolt action should be sufficient fed from a detachable magazine or if you want, look at a Ruger 10-22 semi-auto.

Curious as to how large your farm is?

Couldn't the OP also use .22 LR subsonic ammo? Being new to MD, I'm not sure of legality, but its plenty to take down fox at a lower decibel level than standard or high velocity. Obviously need to be closer or know trajectories but that's simple enough.

303_enfield · May 24, 2019

DC-Choppah said:
Hmmm. Snare traps and foothold traps appear to be illegal in Montgomery county. http://www.eregulations.com/maryland/hunting/furbearer-hunting-trapping/

DNR is telling me that the trapping permit they can give me for nuisance fox is only for the cage trap that they say fox will NOT go into. So it is useless for fox.

Might have to talk to another DNR Officer. You don't want to trap it. You want to kill it. The permit lets you kill it out of season, your not hunting. With a snare IN your barn what could be illegal? Explain to DNR that the fox has denned up in your goat barn. At what point will the dens damage the barn beyond repair? Flood them, smoke them or gas them out.

Good luck!

jtb81100 · May 24, 2019

DC-Choppah said:
Hmmm. Snare traps and foothold traps appear to be illegal in Montgomery county. http://www.eregulations.com/maryland/hunting/furbearer-hunting-trapping/

DNR is telling me that the trapping permit they can give me for nuisance fox is only for the cage trap that they say fox will NOT go into. So it is useless for fox.

I've caught plenty of fox in cages with cheap canned cat food. Don't completely open the can just pop the top so the smell gets out. If they are trap smart set out a can a night for a few nights.

Edit: Should have added in the last sentence to set them out without traps for a couple nights. Once you are ready to put the cage out (against awall preferably), trim a tree branch (pine if you have them) and lay that against the side of the trap to disguise it and to help cover handling scent.

lazarus · May 25, 2019

WildWeasel said:
Couldn't the OP also use .22 LR subsonic ammo? Being new to MD, I'm not sure of legality, but its plenty to take down fox at a lower decibel level than standard or high velocity. Obviously need to be closer or know trajectories but that's simple enough.

Yes. I use 22 quiets. 4 acres with a 100 acre farm behind and similar sized 4-5 acre properties to either side isn’t that small. Especially if shooting off an elevated deck...

I wouldn’t use anything bigger than a 22 (or shotgun with shot), but likely to be over 150yds to nearby houses as it is. Especially if out the back. I am on 4.4 acres now, a 4.4 acre property next to me and the rest are about 1.5 acres with a couple of vacant lots and a lot of woods. Using my range finder I’ve got a number of parts of my property >150yds from neighbor’s houses. And at least HoCo seems to exempt safety zones when in defense of life or property from animals.

Though I also have the perk my house is at the top of a hill and most of the houses around me are on neighboring hills (stream runs behind my house) or through woods. Which doesn’t mean I don’t need to be moderately careful and I wouldn’t shoot anything other than a shotgun or 22.

Helps a couple of my immediate neighbors have already said they don’t mind me deer hunting or shooting varmints. One of the ones I haven’t talked to has a deer stand on the edge of his property and one of the vacant lots right by mine.

Which reminds me to have a conversation with him come deer season (don’t mind if he retrieves something from my property, but I don’t want him hunting or shooting things on my property. Least wise as I’ll be bow hunting deer on mine). It is about on the property line with the vacant lot and about 10-15yds from mine.

lazarus · May 25, 2019

jtb81100 said:
I've caught plenty of fox in cages with cheap canned cat food. Don't completely open the can just pop the top so the smell gets out. If they are trap smart set out a can a night for a few nights.

Edit: Should have added in the last sentence to set them out without traps for a couple nights. Once you are ready to put the cage out (against awall preferably), trim a tree branch (pine if you have them) and lay that against the side of the trap to disguise it and to help cover handling scent.

Downside is you’ll catch other things too like stray cats. Or worse, skunk. My neighbor once actually caught a HAWK in a live trap. let it go in the park a couple miles away (I am sure it was back faster than they were).

John from MD · May 25, 2019

Skunks are easy to deal with. You just cover the trap with a dark cover and let it sit for about an hour. Then go pick it up and relocate the trap. Slowly take the over off and open the trap door. They will walk out and not show any interest in spraying. I have caught a number of health skunks in traps and this release method never fails.

I never left traps out in the daytime as I never wanted to catch sick animals.

hobiecat590 · May 25, 2019

marko said:
Actually GREAT NEWS - you can shoot up to .25 Caliber, but NOT FULL METAL JACKET.

Quote from OP, I get tired of people not reading....

"We live outside the urban area in Montgomery county MD"

You can shoot a legal AR-15 in .223 on your farm. Regular .22 Long and Short, .25 auto, .17 HMR.

No AKs or .38s or .357, .44, etc.

You have a lot going for you.

.223 or 22 WSM should work as long as no FMJ.

hobiecat590 · May 25, 2019

danb said:
For an expert I'd say 22lR. For an inexperienced hunter I would not suggest it personally. With the right shot you can take deer with a .22lR too, but I would not recommend it either.

I have seen a lot of raccoons and groundhogs escape .22lR. Follow up shots are easy with 22LR, if they stand still, but they usually don't. Then you have a dog digging a hole trying to get a wounded animal that ran under or into something. Or vultures, coyotes, or other foxes. Been there, done that. Nothing of course is foolproof. I have also seen 175lb bucks walk away from a 12 gauge at 20 yds (even though I hit the liver, it was through-and through, probably the slug did not expand). Conversely I've dropped deer where they stood with a crossbow.

Shot placement is always key, but a bigger cartridge is more forgiving of poor shot placement. What you pick should reflect your appetite for tracking wounded animals or regret ("There is a lot of fur did you hit them in the right place?"). 12 or 20 ga is great, cant go wrong there. But slugs are expensive and its hard on the shoulder. For inexperienced hunters I generally recommend the biggest rifle/shotgun you can handle/afford because tracking wounded animals is a real PITA.

I used to use 22lr then switched to 22 wsm because it was more humane. Once upon a time I tagged a very large ground hog w/ a 22lr to the head and it was still moving when I walked up to it and it took 4 more 22lr from 3 ft away to finally put it out of its misery.

I had no idea that 22-250, 25-06, .243 etc were all legal in the PRoMC. All of these will take deer and smaller and some out west use them for elk (I wouldn't). 25-06 is my favorite deer and 'lope round. If you opt for 22-250 you may annoy your neighbors because this round is LOUD.

DC-Choppah · May 25, 2019

Today we made a move.

We found the real den next to the barn. This was NOT the groundhog's original home. This was a new den that went away from the barn underground. We smoked it and filled it in with the dirt they had removed. We filled in the rest of the groundhog holes around the barn. We relived ourselves and used coyote urine. We got rid of all the carcasses from their feeding and cleaned up the barn well.

Later in the day there was no sign of foxes or groundhogs around the barn where we had always seen the Mom and young foxes playing.

We went to our wooded areas and found 2-3 old dens and 2 very fresh ones. We smoked all of these holes and came back later to relieve ourselves and put on some more coyote urine.

I want to say that these smoke bombs burn HOT! We tended them to make sure that no fires were started. But I can see how someone could start a fire with these if there is dry branches around. Once you toss them in the hole and fill it in with dirt though there is no more heat near the brush.

The dens in the wooded area have surrounding brush so I think next time I will keep the fire extinguisher close at hand.

DC-Choppah · May 25, 2019

lazarus said:
Be careful with smoke bombs. I had a neighbor try that in their barn and it burned the whole thing to the ground (on the plus side, no more ground hogs living in holes in it).

Thank you for that. I had your post in mind when we were out there today and so we tended the fires. They really do burn very hot!

DC-Choppah · May 25, 2019

jtb81100 said:
I've caught plenty of fox in cages with cheap canned cat food. Don't completely open the can just pop the top so the smell gets out. If they are trap smart set out a can a night for a few nights.

Edit: Should have added in the last sentence to set them out without traps for a couple nights. Once you are ready to put the cage out (against awall preferably), trim a tree branch (pine if you have them) and lay that against the side of the trap to disguise it and to help cover handling scent.

After my son was attacked and bit by a rabid fox years ago, we had a trapper set these cage traps around. All we ever got was opossums over and over again. Every day another possum.

Shooting fox vermin on our farm?

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