HOW to APPLY for a MARYLAND Carry Permit

echo6mike · Feb 14, 2016

CypherPunk said:
Eventually, I believe, the current scheme will collapse under its own incompetence.

LOL!!

I think what you're trying to do is great, and I hope you get some traction with it, but you do remember what State we're in here, right?

We practically INVENTED incompetence (and corruption, and more great stuff) in Maryland!

Remember, we gave the country Spiro Agnew and so many others, including the fantastically successful Martin Owe'Malley so recently.

Good luck though, cypher!

Echo6mike, goin' mobile...

fred333 · Feb 17, 2016

As a part-time MDSP/NRA-certified firearm instructor, I'm also certified to instruct applicants for Wear and Carry permits (CCW). To date, I've chosen not to do any CCW training; primarily because I've no practical experience owing to the fact that I don't possess a MD CCW permit (I have a Utah permit, but for a variety of reasons (mostly Maryland-related), I've chosen not to make use of it).

Anyway, I was recently asked to co-train a CCW class, but felt I should decline the request since I have no practical experience with discrete (i.e., concealed) carry. Yeah, I'm one of those strange types that believe there's a difference between education and experience. But since this's come up more than once, I decided to try again to see if I could acquire a Maryland CCW permit, but, this time, as a state certified firearm instructor.

In short, I was just informed that state certified firearm instructors, who're unaffiliated with a business (i.e., you're applying as an individual and not as part of an LLC...or similar), will be disapproved. This is why the CCW permit application contains an Employment history section. As far as MDSP's concerned, state certified instructors, while certified to train others, do not meet the requirements for their own approval in Maryland.

Forgetting for a moment where I was (Maryland), I explained that I felt this to be akin to the state certifying someone who's never been behind the wheel of an automobile to teach Drivers Education courses, but was told that's the way it is. Those who the state trusts to teach cannot be trusted to do. Clever, huh?

Just wanted to get this into the system for future reference.

GTOGUNNER · Feb 17, 2016

fred333 said:
As a part-time MDSP/NRA-certified firearm instructor, I'm also certified to instruct applicants for Wear and Carry permits (CCW). To date, I've chosen not to do any CCW training; primarily because I've no practical experience owing to the fact that I don't possess a MD CCW permit (I have a Utah permit, but for a variety of reasons (mostly Maryland-related), I've chosen not to make use of it).
SNIP

In short, I was just informed that state certified firearm instructors, who're unaffiliated with a business (i.e., you're applying as an individual and not as part of an LLC...or similar), will be disapproved. This is why the CCW permit application contains an Employment history section. As far as MDSP's concerned, state certified instructors, while certified to train others, do not meet the requirements for their own approval in Maryland.
SNIP

Just wanted to get this into the system for future reference.

Not sure of who informed you about this, it's not entirely correct. Additionally you could appeal to the HPRB and probably get a denial over turned if you got denied.

CypherPunk · Feb 19, 2016

fred333 said:
... I was just informed that state certified firearm instructors, who're unaffiliated with a business (i.e., you're applying as an individual and not as part of an LLC...or similar), will be disapproved. This is why the CCW permit application contains an Employment history section.

I'd like to know who gave you that information, because it's absolutely false.

People who disseminate false information like this have the ability to cause harm. Most have a personal bias or are simply incompetent.

IMHO, the alleged purpose of the Maryland Handgun Permit's employment history section is to investigate the applicants background, criminal history and propensity for violence. In reality, it's probably 85% background and 15% intimidation (as are the references).

MSP's current licensing scheme requires applicants have a good and substantial reason to apply.

Teaching the state mandated training courses, or the intent to teach, participating in financial transactions, receiving & disbursement of class fees, buying & selling supplies, and to transport regulated firearms and ammunition to training classes requires a Maryland Handgun Permit and satisfies the g&s requirements under the current scheme.

fred333 · Feb 19, 2016

CypherPunk said:
I'd like to know who gave you that information, because it's absolutely false.
People who disseminate false information like this have the ability to cause harm. Most have a personal bias or are simply incompetent.
IMHO, the alleged purpose of the Maryland Handgun Permit's employment history section is to investigate the applicants background, criminal history and propensity for violence. In reality, it's probably 85% background and 15% intimidation (as are the references).
MSP's current licensing scheme requires applicants have a good and substantial reason to apply.
Teaching the state mandated training courses, or the intent to teach, participating in financial transactions, receiving & disbursement of class fees, buying & selling supplies, and to transport regulated firearms and ammunition to training classes requires a Maryland Handgun Permit and satisfies the g&s requirements under the current scheme.

I don't wanna post names publicly, but three people at MDSP—one in Firearms Division, one in Licensing and the last in Wear & Carry permitting. I even provided the Drivers' Ed analogy to each to make absolutely sure they got the point and was given the same response.
Again, the purpose of my inquiry was solely to see if I, a MDSP-certified firearm instructor, can apply without providing any Employer contact info since I do not derive my income from training (i.e., it's a part-time gig done mostly to take curious/willing anti-gunners to the range...winning hearts and minds). That is all.

PJDiesel · Feb 19, 2016

And there you have it.

Pure intimidation, nothing more. Bet if someone calls back they get a different answer. :mad:

CypherPunk · Feb 19, 2016

fred333 said:
I don't wanna post names publicly, but three people at MDSP—one in Firearms Division, one in Licensing and the last in Wear & Carry permitting. I even provided the Drivers' Ed analogy to each to make absolutely sure they got the point and was given the same response.
Again, the purpose of my inquiry was solely to see if I, a MDSP-certified firearm instructor, can apply without providing any Employer contact info since I do not derive my income from training (i.e., it's a part-time gig done mostly to take curious/willing anti-gunners to the range...winning hearts and minds). That is all.

It is improbable that three different people, or even the same person on a different day, from the Maryland State Police Licensing Division will give you the same answer.

That is because the SOP's, rules, regulations and laws are not easy to understand, have little to do with public safety, and often depend largely on interpretation, which is heavily influenced by the subjective opinions and biases of the decider, who trained them, their attitude or mood and the prevailing political winds, especially on an election year.

This is why I despise the current system. It serves neither the MSP, public safety or the taxpayer.

Apply for a handgun permit anyway, and be prepared for them to ask your employer if you employer thinks you should be "permitted" to carry a "weapon"?

If they win, we all lose.

fred333 · Feb 19, 2016

CypherPunk said:
It is improbable that three different people, or even the same person on a different day, from the Maryland State Police Licensing Division will give you the same answer.

Regardless, that is what I was told.

This is why I despise the current system. It serves neither the MSP, public safety or the taxpayer.

Apply for a handgun permit anyway, and be prepared for them to ask your employer if you employer thinks you should be "permitted" to carry a "weapon"?

On more than one occasion, the owner of the company (my boss) has said, "If the police would just give up all of their guns, I'm sure the criminals would give up theirs. There's no reason for people to own guns."

Rhetorical question: How long do you think I'd remain employed once MDSP rang him up asking his opinion of whether I should be "permitted" to carry a gun?
And with the government's track record of mistakes, mishaps, ****-ups, foibles, harassment and outright acts of aggression against its political "enemies", there isn't a chance in hell that I'd arm them with that kinda info. So my choices are to apply and leave that page blank (which, I've been assured is almost a sure-fire way to be disapproved...though they did say I was welcome to spend the money on prints, photos, etc., and apply anyway :rolleyes:

) or to not apply.

mxrider · Feb 19, 2016

fred333 said:
Regardless, that is what I was told.

While I am understanding of people not wanting to spend the time and money on something they don't feel that will ever come to fruition, this is one that I would encourage going forward to test the system.

You are self employed for your training. Plain and Simple.

GTOGUNNER · Feb 20, 2016

Actually, some people are not intelligent enough to carry a firearm. Thankfully most of those people don't apply.
At least that's what the MSP told me.

lonzo · Feb 24, 2016

Finally got the phone interview and so did the boss (35 days since they cashed the check). Guess they'll call the rest and then deny...Sad that you expect it then have hope that you'll get approved...

PJDiesel · Feb 24, 2016

lonzo said:
Finally got the phone interview and so did the boss (35 days since they cashed the check). Guess they'll call the rest and then deny...Sad that you expect it then have hope that you'll get approved...

G&S?

CypherPunk · Feb 24, 2016

GTOGUNNER said:
Actually, some people are not intelligent enough to carry a firearm. Thankfully most of those people don't apply.

At least that's what the MSP told me.

Some people aren't intelligent enough to to vote either, but the fact remains that I have to apply for permission from my local government to re- shingle my roof. Yet my neighbor, who has no job and no hope of supporting herself or her children can keep having babies with different fathers.

Nostromo · Feb 24, 2016

As I understand it, if you're a business owner, you're allowed to have a firearm on the premises, furthermore, if you are Manager and have the permission of the owner to have a firearm on the premises, it's totally legal. I've gone so far as to find that said Manager or Owner can both submit multiple copies of high-dollar transactions and bank deposits as a substantial need to CCW.

In my situation, I'm a manager that works for an Apple Reseller and have been doing so for over fourteen years. One of our offices has already been robbed and a competitor of ours just up the street was robbed in January. If that isn't good enough reason to grant a CCW, then I don't know what is.

Think I should go for it? My boss will happily sign off on it.

lonzo · Feb 24, 2016

PJDiesel said:
G&S?

Nope, been thinking bout though..I was referring to my wear and carry

The funny thing, was he asked me if I had apply for a Virginia permit and I told him no, because I need Maryland first because having Virginia won't do me any good...

PJDiesel · Feb 24, 2016

lonzo said:
Nope, been thinking bout though..I was referring to my wear and carry

I was asking what yours was....

GTOGUNNER · Feb 24, 2016

Gun & Shoulder holster?

Jk

lonzo · Feb 24, 2016

PJDiesel said:
I was asking what yours was....

Bah, sorry, I was thinking collector, not good reason...lol

Being a fed with military background including being an MP with a high clearance, traveling to and from Virginia, with OPM and VA hacking with anti Law enforcement, anti government going on and threats from unknown terrorist groups. I feel I need protection that my county and state can't provide me at all times.

lonzo · Feb 24, 2016

GTOGUNNER said:
Gun & Shoulder holster?

Jk

Thought maybe he was referring to Grouping and Sexual favors for MSP.....lol

For my defense, I deal with tons of government and military acronyms and just wasn't thinking

Dingo3 · Feb 24, 2016

Nostromo said:
As I understand it, if you're a business owner, you're allowed to have a firearm on the premises, furthermore, if you are Manager and have the permission of the owner to have a firearm on the premises, it's totally legal. I've gone so far as to find that said Manager or Owner can both submit multiple copies of high-dollar transactions and bank deposits as a substantial need to CCW.

In my situation, I'm a manager that works for an Apple Reseller and have been doing so for over fourteen years. One of our offices has already been robbed and a competitor of ours just up the street was robbed in January. If that isn't good enough reason to grant a CCW, then I don't know what is.

Think I should go for it? My boss will happily sign off on it.

I see that you're in PG county. That should, in and of itself, be Good and Substantial.

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