7.62x54r Powder coated Cast

Melnic · Nov 5, 2020

So, I'm playing with my PC Cast .311 160gr Lee Molds

I had success making this a plinking round for shooting steel on my 300 BLK.

Powder coated and gas checked, these come our pretty big, like .313-.316 depending on the amount of "shake" before "bake".

Although I have LOTS of bullets left, I thought I'd play and work up some loads for the Mosin. My goal would be 4MOA at 100 yards so I could use them to shoot 12" steel gong at 100 yards offhand.

I have a Mosin PU Sniper with a pristine bore. And I have a long established Load for it with Sierra Soft Point hunting bullets and Varget.

I know it would shoot different with my M44 offhand but I figure for now, I'll do some playing around with load development to see how the scoped Mosin would fare with these. If I can get them grouping as well as say Tulamo, I'd be set.

Doing a bunch of reading, I built up 5 each of

7gr W231

10gr Unique

27.0-29.0 IMR4895 (1 each .5gr apart)

W231 was about 2" groups @ 50 yards subsonic at 1050fps avg

Unique was also about 2" groups @ 50 Yards at 1350fps avg

Across the 5 loads of IM4895, the groups were about 2.5" with the last 2 3/4" apart. The 29gr was 1610fps and the velocity started to stabilize there so I think I'll load some more up around the 29gr range to try to see how they group.

For Grins, I shot 3 of my Sierra bullet reloads and the 3 bullets were touching.
3 pics Imr4895, tulamo and Sierra/Varget

PowPow · Nov 8, 2020

One of these days I'll get a mold to cast for my Mosins. Those are some really nice targets, Melnic. That last one is insanely good.

GunBum · Nov 8, 2020

I’m going off the assumption that you are sizing them after you PC them a cause they are gas checked. If not, you really need to.

If you want to shrink the groups in half, then sort by weight. It appears like you have vertical stringing on the PC bullets, so the variable PC thickness is probably giving a fair amount of weight variation.

Last suggests to lose the gas checks. I’ve never had a gas check bullet shoot as well as the same thing without the gas checks.

Melnic · Nov 9, 2020

GunBum said:
I’m going off the assumption that you are sizing them after you PC them a cause they are gas checked. If not, you really need to.

If you want to shrink the groups in half, then sort by weight. It appears like you have vertical stringing on the PC bullets, so the variable PC thickness is probably giving a fair amount of weight variation.

Last suggests to lose the gas checks. I’ve never had a gas check bullet shoot as well as the same thing without the gas checks.

Yes, I Put gas check on before powder coating, then powder coat. Then I sized these at .311 with lee sizer.

So far, my only PC experience has been 308 and 300Blackout. Gas Checked always has done better. I may try to lose the gas check at some point with the Mosin, but not just yet.

I did not even bother yet weeding out any rejects and yes, I know if I did, I'd get even tighter groups. Another thing I've done with gas checks for the 300AAC was to measure Bullet Length cause the gask checks don't always seat consistent onto the bullet when sizing. I'm just starting on this for the Mosins so was more of a "starter" thread than any sort of results. I'll be posting more trips as I make them.
Thanks

Only the first pic is the PC gas checked bullets and they are each different charge weights. Just showing how it was grouping before even doing an OCW test.

2nd is Tulammo

3rd are my reload OCW for that gun. .311 Sierra SP Spitzer Pro Hunters. With this load, they are more accurate than I can hold. That day I was doing well. Scope is 2.2in high so they actually rise a tad at 100 yards where I last set the scope and have not touched in 2 years.

John from MD · Nov 9, 2020

I have a Lyman 314299GC bullet that will make almost any Mosin shoot like a sniper rifle. You don't need to powder coat it, just Xlox. The best loads come with 2400 and Red Dot but I'm willing to bet you could work with Unique.

It can be yours for a box of SR or SP primers. :innocent0

Melnic · Nov 9, 2020

John from MD said:
I have a Lyman 314299GC bullet that will make almost any Mosin shoot like a sniper rifle. You don't need to powder coat it, just Xlox. The best loads come with 2400 and Red Dot but I'm willing to bet you could work with Unique.

It can be yours for a box of SR or SP primers.

Box of 100?

Done deal HAHA
Boxes of 1000 are like gold bricks right now

I actually like the Powder coating. I have only Done the Lee Alox though, never Xlox

John from MD · Nov 9, 2020

XLOX goes on thinner and dries like a varnish and is not sticky. Additionally, it is much cheaper than Alox and you can buy quart size bottles.

Melnic · Nov 17, 2020

I ran loads between 29 and 30 and found an accuracy node at 29.5 IMR4895 averaging 1800fps

I will be curious when I run some load testing with the carbine. Also will be curious if it comes out low and to the left.

This was my PU sniper at 50 yards

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Brickman301 · Nov 17, 2020

Nice group!
I shoot the same bullet, powder coated and gas checked, in my Mosins. Sized to 314, if memory serves me right. Not at home to look at my loading data.
The load I use is 13 grains of red dot powder. For shooting offhand, at paper, they shot better than I can hold, and no recoil at all!

Melnic · Nov 17, 2020

Brickman301 said:
Nice group!
I shoot the same bullet, powder coated and gas checked, in my Mosins. Sized to 314, if memory serves me right. Not at home to look at my loading data.
The load I use is 13 grains of red dot powder. For shooting offhand, at paper, they shot better than I can hold, and no recoil at all!

I"ve read alot about red dot and Unique as well as 2400. Some others have run with Blue Dot which I have a lb of and nothing yet loaded for it. Don't recall when or why I got it, might have been during a powder scare.

Mosin is one Tough SOB of an action, so I may start low w/ Blue dot and work something up slowly looking for pressure signs to see how it goes after doing more research. Its a slower powder than red dot or unique but still faster than 2400

John from MD · Nov 17, 2020

Don't worry about blowing up the MN91 with fast powder loads in the 10 to 18 grain range. What is important is that you need is enough pressure to obdurate the bullet.

You won't get leading if you are using wheel weights and Alox. If you are powder coating, then you have no leading worries. I shot MN's from when I was 10 years old until I was 60 years old and have experimented with lots of loads since there was no data then. I even used to use duplex loads with 10 grains of a fast powder and the rest of the case filled with WC860 or IMR 5010.

The ground work has been done for you, and thanks to the internet, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Google Ed Harris and Cast Bullet Association or Glenn Frexell cast bullets from Los Angeles Silhouette Club. Use their data and go out and shoot instead of wasting precious (for now anyway) powder and primers.

Melnic · Nov 17, 2020

John from MD said:
What is important is that you need is enough pressure to obdurate the bullet.

So, is that why the reduced loads for cast bullets will often involve faster pistol powder to bump up the pressure quickly but provide a smaller moving bullet?

I'm doing everything with Powder Coated gas checked bullets.

John from MD · Nov 17, 2020

Melnic said:
So, is that why the reduced loads for cast bullets will often involve faster pistol powder to bump up the pressure quickly but provide a smaller moving bullet?

I'm doing everything with Powder Coated gas checked bullets.

You are partially correct. The part about the smaller bullet is not correct. Lighter, shorter bullets don't always do well in fast rifling. Most competition shooting, including over the course shooting, is done with bullets in the same general range as the normal bullet specified for the rifle.

Some example. The 6.5x55 military cartridge uses a 140gn bullet. 120 can be used but it's range is limited. The best cast bullet is 140gn. The 30-06 military cartridge uses a 150gn bullet. Most cast bullets used are 150 to 170. The 8x57 Mauser military cartridge is a 196gn (Spatronen) and the cast bullets used for it are 190 to 210 grains. The M39's that I used for competition shot Lyman 314299GC bullets with alox and 16 gns of 2400 powder. I still have a couple of medals from how good they shot.

If you want to shoot at short ranges, you can work up loads for cast bullets. The problem is that they tend to over stabilize with the fast twist of the rifle.

Melnic · Nov 17, 2020

Oh, crap, did not catch my typo,
Should be:
So, is that why the reduced loads for cast bullets will often involve faster pistol powder to bump up the pressure quickly but provide a SLOWER moving bullet?

Yes, all my cast loads are for range plinking at 100 yard steel targets

John from MD · Nov 17, 2020

Melnic said:
Oh, crap, did not catch my typo,
Should be:
So, is that why the reduced loads for cast bullets will often involve faster pistol powder to bump up the pressure quickly but provide a SLOWER moving bullet?

Yes, all my cast loads are for range plinking at 100 yard steel targets

Yes.

I think you will find this very helpful. Remember, the data comes from before the practice of powder coating bullets was discovered. Powder Coating allows lead bullets to be shot at higher velocities than was though possible just a few years ago.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Enjoy,

John

Melnic · Nov 19, 2020

so, shot the 29-30 IMR4895 with the M38. Groups were of course bigger than the Sniper and velocities were 200fps lower.
Interesting that in both guns, not only were the groups lower, for the PC cast loads, but they were left also a few inches for both the full length 91/30 sniper plus the carbine M38
Groups with 29.5 was close to the groups with Tulamo.

I also shot Blue dot from 13grains (1430fps) up to 18grains (1800fps). No signs of over pressure.
Also shot low and left. I think I'll load some up around 16 grains (1650fps) and look for an accuracy node.

Melnic · Nov 26, 2020

I loaded up 14.0-15.0 of Blue dot. with .311 Powder coated and gas checked.
I'll go higher if I don't find an accurate load here.
Not liking how little powder is in there so in addition to inspecting each case with a light, I added the step of dipping a brass rod with a mark on it as a manual Powder Cop to make certain I'm not double charging.
I'm measuring one at a time and not putting my cases into the tray until loaded but I sure don't want a double charged case.

I'll do the load accuracy test with my M38 which is the gun I'm targeting for these loads

John from MD · Nov 26, 2020

Why don't you fill the outside rows of the loading tray and just walk it down the powder measure. When you get to one row, rotate the tray and do the other. It is just as safe as loading singly but faster.

Melnic · Nov 26, 2020

John from MD said:
Why don't you fill the outside rows of the loading tray and just walk it down the powder measure. When you get to one row, rotate the tray and do the other. It is just as safe as loading singly but faster.

I'm weighing each load (5 rounds per increment) on the scale right now during load development.

I use the powder measure for bulk loading once I have the load figured out.

John from MD · Nov 26, 2020

Ahh sooo.

7.62x54r Powder coated Cast

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