Why are carbide rifle dies not available

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  • ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    Why are carbide dies available on pistol calibers but not rifle? Not really a problem I'm just curious and would like to get schooled.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Why are carbide dies available on pistol calibers but not rifle? Not really a problem I'm just curious and would like to get schooled.

    The main benefit of carbide dies for straight walled pistol brass is that you don't need to lube clean brass before sizing, but when you are pushing shoulders back you create a ton of force in the front of the case without lube, and will probably buckle cases regardless of the die hardness, so they have to be lubed anyway. Carbide rifle dies are just more abrasion / wear resistant and last longer for high volume shooters, but are much more expensive as it needs a large insert, not just a small carbide ring. Few companies offer them, and usually just in calibers that tend to be shot in high volumes (223/308/30-06 etc).
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,154
    Carbide is much harder to machine which is not too bad when making a straight sided cylindrical cavity but gets much more difficult when you need two different cylinders connected by a cone shaped section and the cone shape must be precisely located from the end.
     

    cstone

    Active Member
    Dec 12, 2018
    842
    Baltimore, MD
    The main benefit of carbide dies for straight walled pistol brass is that you don't need to lube clean brass before sizing, but when you are pushing shoulders back you create a ton of force in the front of the case without lube, and will probably buckle cases regardless of the die hardness, so they have to be lubed anyway. Carbide rifle dies are just more abrasion / wear resistant and last longer for high volume shooters, but are much more expensive as it needs a large insert, not just a small carbide ring. Few companies offer them, and usually just in calibers that tend to be shot in high volumes (223/308/30-06 etc).

    This.

    I won't spend the extra money on dies when it doesn't save me any effort or produce noticeably better cases. I guess I'm not alone and that many reloaders also won't spend the extra money acts as a disincentive for manufacturers.

    I can buy two or three sets of Lee or RCBS rifle sizing dies for the price of a carbide die.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Carbide is much harder to machine which is not too bad when making a straight sided cylindrical cavity but gets much more difficult when you need two different cylinders connected by a cone shaped section and the cone shape must be precisely located from the end.

    Most carbide pistol dies just have a donut of carbide at the mouth. Not a full length cylinder.

    9MM dies are different, since 9MM case is tapered.
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    Thanks for the education. Do pistol or rifle dies wear out? How would I know if my dies needed to be replaced?
     

    GunBum

    Active Member
    Feb 21, 2018
    751
    SW Missouri
    Thanks for the education. Do pistol or rifle dies wear out? How would I know if my dies needed to be replaced?

    I have dies that my great grandfather used starting pre-WWII and have loaded thousands of rounds.

    My .357 dies have loaded thousands of rounds for over 30 years.

    I’m not sure they can be worn out.
     

    cstone

    Active Member
    Dec 12, 2018
    842
    Baltimore, MD
    Thanks for the education. Do pistol or rifle dies wear out? How would I know if my dies needed to be replaced?

    I've heard of the carbide rings in pistol dies cracking which would cause me to replace them if it happened to me. Other than that, I know of someone who did not clean their range pick up brass before resizing. Eventually the inside die walls became scored and even with lots of cleaning they would leave scratches on brass cases.

    Occasionally I will disassemble dies and run them through an ultrasonic cleaner before drying them real good and reassembling. Putting clean brass into your dies will help them stay clean and serviceable. I've never had to toss a die due to damage or wear. I have Lee, RCBS, and Dillon dies. Take care of your tools and they will take care of you.
     

    GunBum

    Active Member
    Feb 21, 2018
    751
    SW Missouri
    I've heard of the carbide rings in pistol dies cracking which would cause me to replace them if it happened to me. Other than that, I know of someone who did not clean their range pick up brass before resizing. Eventually the inside die walls became scored and even with lots of cleaning they would leave scratches on brass cases.

    That’s abuse, not wearing out.
     

    noylj

    Active Member
    Jun 3, 2012
    144
    Dillon TELLS folks that they still have to lube their cases with the carbide bottle-neck dies and that they are only made for ammunition manufacturers who will be pumping out millions of rounds. The carbide dies will last for several million rounds, the steel dies won't. Yet, I heard one person on the phone tell them he would wait to get the carbide die any way...
    Heck, just the little bit of taper to a 9x19 cast will cause many to have to lube them also due to pressures in the die. I find this, for some unknown reason, to occur about once a year for totally unknown reasons (9x19 cases have to have a longer carbide insert, so they have the proper taper.
     

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