Straight wall cartridges in slug gun counties

danb · Dec 30, 2019

hammer said:
I'd have to vote for bolt action only. I don't want some yahoo firing off rounds haphazardly playing rambo around homes.

I had a yahoo from hazard county hunting small acreage behind my house with a slug gun. He was 50 yards from businesses and homes. Less than 100 yards from the road. Hunting on the ground shooting at a little deer in the direction of my house.

That's what you'll get putting multiple rounds in the air. That scares me. Thank God that lug nut didn't have a semi auto.

Lol, not this. :sad20:

If one can hunt with a semi auto shotgun like the Panzer ar-12, with slugs, with 8 slugs in the magazine (per DNR rules), an AR in 300blk ought to be fine.

Yahoos are going to be yahoos even if you put a crossbow in their hand.

hammer · Dec 30, 2019

I figured you would go with semi auto shot guns

Semi auto shot guns can't fire as fast as a ar

Slugs drop what 8 inches at 100 yards and 15 or more at 200

I don't think 150 grain bullet drops that much
But yes a semi auto slug gun in a Yahoo's hands is scary. I guess any gun for that matter.

hammer · Dec 30, 2019

I didn't say anything about taking rights away from anybody. How you equate that to hunting with a bolt action wall cartridge I have no idea.

I'm suggesting enhancing rights to hunt with these rifles in shot gun counties. When I do the math , it's an addition not s subtraction iof rights.

I think your comment shows why gun owners can never come together on issues that supports gun ownership and rights. Its why we get the shaft we have no strength in numbers.

There's always someone swimming against the current. I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities to hunt with your ar weapons in counties that offer rifle hunting.

My suggestion of using walled cartridges in slug gun counties is opening up opportunities to use a rifle in slug counties, not taking them away.

To me it seems like a start, if excepted and works. Maybe it would offer opportunities for ar hunting. You have to start somewhere embarrassing new ideas is better than responding negatively.

lazarus · Dec 30, 2019

danb said:
Less populated areas already allow rifles. The trial would have to be some shotgun-only area in Central MD, or one of the MoCo/HoCo/AACo county managed hunts. The politics are simply not favorable. Heck, even though MoCo (and other counties) have a mere 50 yard safety zone for archery, the politics in HoCo do not favor reducing the zone from 150 yds to 50 yds. It took Rockville 10 years to allow bow hunting.

I am still hoping we can get HoCo to reduce the archery safety zone. This year between moving, working on my house and life stuff I’ve just been way too busy to try to push it forward. I’ve got some notes on how to try (of course from asking some here, but also some former MGA legislative aides).

No idea if it would be feasible. But in talking with even some of my really liberal neighbors, almost no one likes how many deer there are. Getting permission to hunt on my property was pretty easy from the neighbors (4.4 acres). That said, I’d like to ensure in the future I don’t have some new neighbor who doesn’t like hunting shuts me down because their house is 143yds from where I want to hunt.

lazarus · Dec 30, 2019

hammer said:
I figured you would go with semi auto shot guns

Semi auto shot guns can't fire as fast as a ar

Slugs drop what 8 inches at 100 yards and 15 or more at 200

I don't think 150 grain bullet drops that much
But yes a semi auto slug gun in a Yahoo's hands is scary. I guess any gun for that matter.

Sabotted slugs are legal in MD. The drop on one of those is about 8 inches at 200yds. You can easily lob one well over a mile if shooting at something skylit on a hill. The ballistics aren’t much worse than a 7.62x39.

danb · Dec 30, 2019

hammer said:
I figured you would go with semi auto shot guns

Semi auto shot guns can't fire as fast as a ar

Slugs drop what 8 inches at 100 yards and 15 or more at 200

I don't think 150 grain bullet drops that much
But yes a semi auto slug gun in a Yahoo's hands is scary. I guess any gun for that matter.

1- your knowledge of guns is dubious. Both a shotgun and rifle (semi auto) cycle faster than you can pull the trigger. Ask people at 3-gun. The limiting factor is you, the human (getting back on target due to recoil, pulling trigger).

2- your knowledge of ballistics is dubious. A 150 gr bullet and 440 gr slug, with the same muzzle velocity and ballistic coefficient, will drop the same amount (given also the same scope height and zero). Try it! http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php

A bullet (slug) exiting the barrel at about 2100fps with a low BC will drop about 10 in, more or less (assuming a 100 yd zero).

lazarus said:
Sabotted slugs are legal in MD. The drop on one of those is about 8 inches at 200yds. You can easily lob one well over a mile if shooting at something skylit on a hill. The ballistics aren’t much worse than a 7.62x39.

yes, this.

hammer · Dec 30, 2019

Excuse me for not quoting exact bullet coefficients, bullet drop ,weights ,etc. I'm working and driving. I was throwing numbers that I thought were reasonably close.

If semi auto shot guns fire as fast and are the same as assualt guns, how come the military doesn't use assualt slug guns instead of m4, and m16s and what other weapons I'm leaving out

I don't think seals use assualt slug guns and snipers don't use m24 slug guns.i know military guns are full auto but they don't always go full auto. Snipers don't use a full auto m24.

Am I a gun know it all nope far from it. So if you have for example ( ,I know I'm dubious) 5 lbs Trigger pull verses a 3 lbs trigger pull which will shoot faster.

Ok I Know you like hard facts. A Remington 1187 trigger pull is 5.5 lbs. An AR 15 is 3.5 to 4 lbs.which cycles faster.

What ejects faster because of length of the bolt cycling a 2 or ,3 inch slug case or a 223 case of ,1.76 inches.

Man I don't know how I even got hear. I was just kicking and idea of hunting with walled cartridges.iam not against you using your ar platform gun.

You know what I'm tierd. I agree to disagree.

BeoBill · Dec 30, 2019

Mark75H said:
The difference is Maryland. In Maryland t.

In Maryland there is no intersection between REALITY and firearms law.

danb · Dec 30, 2019

hammer said:
Excuse me for not quoting exact bullet coefficients, bullet drop ,weights ,etc. I'm working and driving. I was throwing numbers that I thought were reasonably close.

If semi auto shot guns fire as fast and are the same as assualt guns, how come the military doesn't use assualt slug guns instead of m4, and m16s and what other weapons I'm leaving out

I don't think seals use assualt slug guns and snipers don't use m24 slug guns.

Am I a gun know it all nope far from it. So if you have for example ( ,I know I'm dubious) 5 lbs Trigger pull verses a 3 lbs trigger pull which will shoot faster.

Ok I Know you like hard facts. A Remington 1187 trigger pull is 5.5 lbs. An AR 15 is 3.5 to 4 lbs.which cycles faster.

What ejects faster because of length of the bolt cycling a 2 or ,3 inch slug case or a 223 case of ,1.76 inches.

Man I don't know how I even got hear. I was just kicking and idea of hunting with walled cartridges.iam not against you using your ar platform gun.

You know what I'm tierd. I agree to disagree.

"Assault" Is an action, not a gun.

Seriously, I hope you know the difference between the military guns which are full auto or select fire, vs ordinary civilian semi automatic

Biggfoot44 · Dec 30, 2019

Benelli M4 anyone ? ( ie US Mil issue semiauto 12ga )

BeoBill · Dec 30, 2019

OK, how about one of these?

https://www.gunadapters.com/

Pale Ryder · Dec 30, 2019

I'm in favor of going to straight walled cartridges, but doubt it will happen any time soon. Current restrictions can't be due to ammo, but rather people.
You can hunt statewide where otherwise not prohibited with CF ammo for other game like coyote, fox, ground hogs, etc. So it's not a cartridge problem, but the numbers of hunters at any given time that raise the risk.

smdub · Dec 30, 2019

This just keeps getting better the farther is goes...

I 3rd (or 4th?) you not knowing much about guns.

1) recoil is a function of the round. Same fps & gr bullet it doesn't matter if it comes from a straight walled cartridge or a shotgun slug. Firearm weight factors into it too. There are plenty of online calculators to compute this.
2) felt recoil is also a function of the action. A bolt action/single shot is *FAR* more punishing than a semi-auto. My Versamax Competition shotgun is a total pussycat w/ slugs (even more so w/ LE slugs.) But if you have a fragile shoulder why even use 12ga? IIRC 20ga slugs still easily meet the MD hunting limit. Those or sabot 12ga from a semi-auto will be easier on the shoulder than ANY bolt action rifle w/ equivalent ballistics
3) Trigger weight has little to do w/ fire rate time. A short & crisp reset is far more important. You can get identical trigger work on both shotguns and rifles. Mil-spec ARs are in the 8# range.

Your semi-auto vs bolt argument has NOTHING to do with safety.

Mark75H · Dec 30, 2019

Sloppy handling of a bolt gun trying to get off additional shots can be worse than a semi; you have to wiggle the gun around a lot more handling the bolt. Doesn't make any difference if its a rifle or slug gun. Pretty sure the armed forces DO employ shotguns in their armories (except maybe not the Air Force, flyboys can correct me if they shoot buckshot too).

nedsurf · Dec 30, 2019

This is right on the edge of becoming a 3% thread.

Mark75H · Dec 30, 2019

nedsurf said:
This is right on the edge of becoming a 3% thread.

Definetly a popcorn thread already

teratos · Dec 30, 2019

nedsurf said:
This is right on the edge of becoming a 3% thread.

I give it 2 weeks.

Stoveman · Dec 30, 2019

The popcorn in this thread should be served by FUDDS with BUTTER.

Johnconlee · Dec 30, 2019

Contact senator jack bailey, 30 some odd year dnr officer. I I heard seems to take an interest in this type of thing.

lazarus · Jan 1, 2020

smdub said:
This just keeps getting better the farther is goes...

I 3rd (or 4th?) you not knowing much about guns.

1) recoil is a function of the round. Same fps & gr bullet it doesn't matter if it comes from a straight walled cartridge or a shotgun slug. Firearm weight factors into it too. There are plenty of online calculators to compute this.
2) felt recoil is also a function of the action. A bolt action/single shot is *FAR* more punishing than a semi-auto. My Versamax Competition shotgun is a total pussycat w/ slugs (even more so w/ LE slugs.) But if you have a fragile shoulder why even use 12ga? IIRC 20ga slugs still easily meet the MD hunting limit. Those or sabot 12ga from a semi-auto will be easier on the shoulder than ANY bolt action rifle w/ equivalent ballistics
3) Trigger weight has little to do w/ fire rate time. A short & crisp reset is far more important. You can get identical trigger work on both shotguns and rifles. Mil-spec ARs are in the 8# range.

Your semi-auto vs bolt argument has NOTHING to do with safety.

A 20ga semi-auto with low recoil slugs would probably be just fine for a deer gun with a fragile shoulder. Could get one with a ported choke to reduce recoil further. Drop it even more, get a mercury recoil absorber for the stock, or add a bit of lead shot to it to add a few more ounces. Even without the "add-ons" a full power 20ga is about the same power level as a lower power .45-70.

The military does use shotguns, just not often. As for why they don't issue them instead of M4s, come on, really? We got to the M4 because intermediate cartridges are powerful enough and allow you to carry a lot more ammo. Even a 20ga shotgun is going to have maybe a 10 shot magazine in about the space of a 5.56 40 round mag. That 5.56 is going to have a little better ballistics than a 20ga slug. The 5.56 will have much better barrier penetration and the mil doesn't carry much about killing targets, just wounding them.

But find someone on urban checkpoint duty or building entry and a fair enough chance one of them may be carrying a Benelli M4. Hell, I'd rather have one of those for building entry and some 12 pellet 00 buckshot then an M4 carbine.

Straight walled cartridges got some popularity because they tended to have lower BC bullets and lower powder charges than bottleneck cartridges.

Straight wall cartridges in slug gun counties

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

dont be a dumbass

Member

Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

dont be a dumbass

Member

Crank in the Third Row

dont be a dumbass

Ultimate Member

Crank in the Third Row

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

MD Wear&Carry Instructor

Ultimate Member

MD Wear&Carry Instructor

My hair is amazing

TV Personality

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics