So should I apply for the DC permit now......

I'm bad at keeping up with stuff but with the new developments should I apply for the DC permit? Is it even worth it since most of DC is federal property?

TD

DC could still win at SCOTUS, and this process could go on for a year or more. If a stay of the Circuit court order is granted, then the G&S requirement will remain in effect until this is decided.

I'm waiting until this is resolved.

Given DC's past history of resistance to the 2A. I'd wager they are going to ask SCOTUS to hear their appeal , and ask for a stay until SCOTUS decides to hear the case or not.

YMMV

I was thinking of doing a write up on this with the full process from some time ago.

Application cost: $75
Training: $250 to $300
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Cash costs: ~$350

Time costs: two full days, plus about one hour to complete and file a no good cause application.

Anyone can pipe in if I am making a $ or timing mistake, but even if cert is delayed a final decision latest date of coming into force would be summer 2019. That is less than two yeas., all aspects of your training; 16 hours of classroom "safety and use" and "legal, and two hour live range qualification are good for 24 months before application, that is fall 2019.


So if you do training now (16 hours classroom plus two hours range that is two days and $250-$300)the 3/4 of the expense and time lost costs), apply now, and are denied, your training qualification is intact. None of use know what they will do with about the $75 application fee, whether you will need to resubmit that after what period of time, but that is not much money.
training average plus maybe $20 range fee. so maybe $150.

Do consider that, although $250 to $300 mandatory training is idiotic as a crime prevention measure, the training does have some degree of value to almost anyone.

So here is the cert and stay timeline roughly

Cert not filed: you get CCL it in ~90 days from now
Cert filed and denied: you get CCL <90 days from cert denial
Cert filed and accepted, no stay: I wont even entertain this since I believe only one justice is need to stay judgement.
Cert filed and accepted with stay until this term or next: latest possible for final decision seems to be mid 2019

In short intermediate considerations are now out, you do not have to worry about something occurring that would stretch out final outcome beyond your 24 month training expiration.

So if the money is a lot for you, and you would get no benefit from a refresher on conflict avoidance/escalation, general overview of current self defense law, and a pro giving you some drawing and firing training, you could wait. With the stays it is not like you are going to miss a window of opportunity.

Also you could see if any of the trainers are Utah or other some value non-resident permit qualified, and see if you can negotiate a way to combine training and extract some value there.

I'm recommending to pals that live in DC that they train and file soon, in the next couple of months, but not worry about rushing, since there is unlikely to be some weird window now of a stay expiring and a few slipping through.

miles71 said:

Is it even worth it since most of DC is federal property?

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"Worth it" is going to be all over the map. Even DC residents who never carry but own a register firearm gain some legal protections with a CCL. For one you don't need to have a reason to have a firearm outside, say in your car. In DC as it stands you need to show you are going to an activity. At 2am it is difficult to claim you are going to the range and even legal secured transport is a problem, whereas if you have carry the carry is your reason and valid 24/7. you gain protection if you have a piece of brass is secured if the cop feels your lock or case is not sufficient.
Also the ~$275 in training is going to vary by individual from being fully worth $275 even if you never get a carry, and not really a loss, to fully redundant and a complete loss of $275. I'm fairly well experienced, have had carry licenses elsewhere, and think I got about $100 worth of benefit as a knowledge refresher.
If you are a Maryland resident who does not have a business in DC, no Maryland CCL (and therefore unlikely to transit DC with a firearm on your hip) or you work in a federal building, I say wait. Or perhaps you can negotiate a UTAH certification for a bump in fees and a few more hour with one of the DC certified trainers.

If you are a DC resident I say file now -- if only to knock down their narrative that they are granting 25%.

swinokur said:

DC could still win at SCOTUS, and this process could go on for a year or more. If a stay of the Circuit court order is granted, then the G&S requirement will remain in effect until this is decided.

I'm waiting until this is resolved.

Given DC's past history of resistance to the 2A. I'd wager they are going to ask SCOTUS to hear their appeal , and ask for a stay until SCOTUS decides to hear the case or not.

YMMV

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CErt request by DC is maybe 90%. They have nothing to lose but other people's money, and it will be a local and national poltical fundraising benefit for the Dems in their base.

If they do request, cert granting is four justices and since there are four fully opposed to anyone having any second amendment rights whatsoever, that is 99.9%certain.

Stay, as far as I can tell takes one justice, and if that is correct, it is 110% DC will get stays both pending cert and pending finals.

If you are a Marland resident, I would wait; if you are a DC resident I would train and file application now.

It's a random crap shoot on timing.

Factor #1 - Multiple variables, all unpredictable to determine exact moment of seriously processing & issueing.

Factor #2 - A gazillion other people are also watching with completed applications in hand waiting for first positive sign. If you wait to react, there will be a backlog inducing stack of applications within 48 hours .

So if you want to be at front of the line, you will have to gamble application fees.


365'ers FTW !

DC certifies it's own instructors. UT instructors without DC certification aren't much help to people requiring training.

One of our members, Cyperpunk is a DC certified instructor.

MPDC chief has the authority to accept training from other sources but to my knowledge there is no list of those.

Military service which includes firearm training is also acceptable, but there is no mention of what proof is required. I have a DD214 but it doesn't mention weapons training for some reason

I'd PM him for info. Here is his web site

http://vougunsmith.com/

I have provided a link to the list of DC certified instructors as well.

https://mpdc.dc.gov/node/1069042

As I mentioned, I'm waiting until there is a final resolution. I applied for a MD permit after Woollard and was denied after the 4CA ruled.

You know the old fool me once saying.....

swinokur said:

As I mentioned, I'm waiting until there is a final resolution. I applied for a MD permit after Woollard and was denied after the 4CA ruled.

You know the old fool me once saying.....

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ALWAYS the voice of reason.

swinokur said:

DC certifies it's own instructors. UT instructors without DC certification aren't much help to people requiring training.

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My point is that some of the DC certified instructors <b>are</b>also certified for other state permits that require courses, and some efficiently might be gained by asking if they will package a price for more than one since some aspects are certainly redundant (not the Dc law 2 hours though, although 90% of mine on the legal section was general and national and not specific to DC).

I am just noting that some people may effectively discount their costs ($250-290 DC cert costs), or limit their lost costs, if they can have an instructor that may also be other state certified, combine another state requirement at a discounted rate. I doubt you could recover more than $50 but still it is a consideration when looking at the costs, since that is the only downside.

I am waiting for George Lyon’s “GO!”

rascal said:

Cert not filed: you get CCL it in ~90 days from now

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In my experience DC is much faster than that, they don't dick around like MSP. When I submitted my package I had a letter of approval in a week and after I did the law portion of the training I took that paperwork down to MPD and walked out with my permit.

Of course this was when there was not a YUGE rush like there will be.

I think its time to submit my application.

Does anyone have any experience or insight on DC accepting a Maryland 16 hour training course for a non resident applicant. I understand that the 2 hours DC law is still required.

Does anyone have experience with DcConccealedCarry.com for the legal training course. Their 2 hour course is advertised as available 3 mornings per week at 6:00 AM for $70.

DC requires a 16 hour course taught by a DC certified instructors. If your MD instructor is DC certified, I'd ask. The MPDC chief can accept other training, but of course to the best of my knowledge, they have no list of what's accepted. A DD214 may also be used as proof of training if it contains proof of firearms training

PM Cypherpunk here on the forum. He is a DC and MD certified instructor.

SPO King from MPDC's licensing office told me they've been given no directive yet and are still enforcing "Good Reason". This should change later today.

tomrkba said:

I am waiting for George Lyon’s “GO!”

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Does George post on here?

swinokur said:

DC requires a 16 hour course taught by a DC certified instructors. If your MD instructor is DC certified, I'd ask. The MPDC chief can accept other training, but of course to the best of my knowledge, they have no list of what's accepted. A DD214 may also be used as proof of training if it contains proof of firearms training

PM Cypherpunk here on the forum. He is a DC and MD certified instructor.

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They do have a list. See #3 in the application instructions.

https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/f...icenseApplicationInstructions102214_FINAL.pdf

2-hour DC law class is the only part that can’t be waived.

oops. forgot about that.

my bad.

wolfwood said:

Does George post on here?

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unfortunately no.

I have emailed him with questions in the past. He answered promptly.

Any press releases the DC's AG Office puts out about this should be here later today:
https://oag.dc.gov

keeping my eyes peeled for......
.