X95/Tavor in .308!

erwos · Jun 28, 2017

IWI-US just showed a teaser pic on their Facebook page of an X95/Tavor in 7.62x51, using SR-25 magazines (like the 7.62x51 Galil ACE). I love how it looks - they took the best parts of the Tavor (handguard, rear of the gun) and mated it with the best parts of the X95 (charging handle and mag release locations, replaceable pistol grip). I assume there is a chance that the stock 18.5" version might make OAL, too.

It also appears this one will have adjustable gas, which is going to be very good for the suppressor crowd.

kohburn · Jun 28, 2017

seems they also showed a 300blk version at the shot show

erwos · Jun 28, 2017

kohburn said:
seems they also showed a 300blk version at the shot show

That has already been released. The .308 version is more interesting due to the receiver changes you need to support a full-power caliber, not to mention the larger magwell.

kohburn · Jun 28, 2017

it is certainly interesting. may make it onto my list.

Steve_Zissou · Jun 28, 2017

The world can't have enough bullpups and battle rifles. Bravo, IWI, for checking both boxes at once with this one. I'm curious to see how accurate it ends up being, though.

Now, I just want IWI to pull a Colt and new-build a legacy Galil clone so I don't feel as bad cannibalizing one to create a Vektor R4/LM4 clone.

Name Taken · Jun 28, 2017

If I can save up the two grand I'd be interested.

Alphabrew · Jun 28, 2017

Very cool and I like it, but it has no practical advantages over an AR10 and a lot of disadvantages like expensive parts, etc.

smdub · Jun 28, 2017

Alphabrew said:
has no practical advantages over an AR10

Except that its a full foot shorter.

AR10 has no 'practical advantage' over the G3 or FAL but yet they all coexist.

DC-W · Jun 28, 2017

OrbitalEllipses · Jun 28, 2017

Mmm, .308 right under your cheek.

erwos · Jun 28, 2017

Steve_Zissou said:
Now, I just want IWI to pull a Colt and new-build a legacy Galil clone so I don't feel as bad cannibalizing one to create a Vektor R4/LM4 clone.

You wouldn't be able to buy one in MD, except as an SBR. Galil AR/ARM are on the banned list by name, and the SA guns are 100% parts interchangeable. Further, the Galil is way out of production, and is kind of an obsolete rifle, too... a new run by IWI is unlikely to happen. (I'd wishlist an Uzi Pro with the original "unmodified Uzi mags" grip first.)

smdub said:
Except that its a full foot shorter.

Yeah, funny how that never comes up. My K-T RFB with a 24" barrel is shorter than my CMMG Mk8 with a 16" barrel, and 8" of barrel is pretty significant when shooting 7.62x51. He also neglected to mention that the X95 is fully-ambi, including being able to swap the ejection port. The AR-308 is a great platform, but it's not a fifth-gen rifle.

AR10 has no 'practical advantage' over the G3 or FAL but yet they all coexist.

Eh, to be fair, the G3 and FAL are basically obsolete and have been phased out of western militaries except for maybe reserve units and DMRs. I'd also argue the AR-308 has a few advantages over those guns... maybe not the best example.

Kman · Jun 28, 2017

I'm not in full chubby mode over it...but I like it.

Boss94 · Jun 28, 2017

I'm honestly very surprised they didn't go 7.62x39 . I have 1 of 5, and 1 of 1 according to MSAR 7.62 x39 MSAR . 1 of 5 shipped as a complete factory gun. And 1 of 1 that also came with a left hand bolt. ( also came with a right bolt as well) it's a sweet shooting gun !!!

HordesOfKailas · Jun 28, 2017

Shortlisted for me. Pending good reviews I will own one.

kenpo333 · Jun 28, 2017

I own an FNAR which I like much better than all of my AR10's but I do want one of these.

Minuteman · Jun 28, 2017

erwos · Jun 29, 2017

Boss94 said:
I'm honestly very surprised they didn't go 7.62x39 .

I think the market expects AK mags in a 7.62x39 platform, rightly or wrongly. Trying to do rock-and-lock with AK mags in a compact bullpup platform is basically a lost cause, as you need way too much clearance in front of the magwell to do it quickly and reliably. You can redesign the magazine retention mechanism for straight insert, which is not impossible, but straight insertion is still awkward to do with an AK mag from a manual dexterity point of view.

IWI already has an excellent rifle in 7.62x39 - the Galil ACE - so I think with regards to the Tavor/X95, I think it's more sensible to skip 7.26x39 and go with .300AAC.

erwos · Jun 29, 2017

It's apparently called the "Tavor 7". IWI-US posted up the specs on Facebook:

Specifications:
• Caliber: 7.62 NATO/.308 Win
• Barrel: CHF/CL 1:12 twist with a 16" barrel; 1:10 with 18" barrel
• OAL: 26.75" with 16" barrel (without flash suppressor)
• Weight: 8.6 Lbs.
• Optional calibers & Conversion Kits: TBD
• Colors: Black, FDE and OD Green
Features (muzzle to butt):
• Muzzle threads: 5/8 x 24
• 4 position variable gas regulator (including off)
• Upper forend: 2 MLOK slots at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock
• Lower forend: Removable SAR styled forend cover that exposes one integral pic rail at 6 o'clock when removed.
• Charging handle lockable in open position, similar to an MP5.
• Full length one piece Picatinny (Mil-Spec) top rail with integral folding BUIS; Tritium front post.
• Cutlass style grip modifiable to pistol grip with traditional trigger guard; same as X95.
• Short stroke gas piston (unlike our long stroke SAR and X95).
• Uses LR/SR25 magazines and comes with one 20-round Magpul PMAG with window (in states without capacity restrictions; 10 round for restricted states).
• Bolt release is Tavor SAR style along centerline or release from MP5 style charging handle
• Fire control group is not interchangeable with SAR or X95.
Ambidextrous Features:
• Ambidextrous bolt; no opposite hand bolt needed for conversion to opposite hand operation. No need to return the gun to IWI US for opposite hand conversion and head space checking.
• Ambidextrous (all the time) magazine release position like our X95, similar to an AR-15.
• Ambidextrous charging handle with push through receiver functionality. No need for tools or any disassembly.
• Ambidextrous (all the time) safety selector with a 450 rotation (unlike 900 on our SAR and X95).
• Ambidextrous (all the time) bolt release behind magazine; similar to the Tavor SAR.
• Ejection port covers are user configurable in the field with a simple slide of the case deflector.
Launch Date: First shipments projected to start in January, 2018.

So, with a new buttpad or perma-attached muzzle device, the 18" version should make the 29" OAL! YAY!

I'm loving some of the other new features, too. MLOK slots, pic rail under the handguard (ala the X95), easier CH-based BHO, faster ambi-changes, and a better safety selector. Seriously, the only thing it's missing is a tool-less QC barrel.

Boss94 · Jun 29, 2017

erwos said:
I think the market expects AK mags in a 7.62x39 platform, rightly or wrongly. Trying to do rock-and-lock with AK mags in a compact bullpup platform is basically a lost cause, as you need way too much clearance in front of the magwell to do it quickly and reliably. You can redesign the magazine retention mechanism for straight insert, which is not impossible, but straight insertion is still awkward to do with an AK mag from a manual dexterity point of view.

IWI already has an excellent rifle in 7.62x39 - the Galil ACE - so I think with regards to the Tavor/X95, I think it's more sensible to skip 7.26x39 and go with .300AAC.

I would agree but looking at it from the other side don't they have a nice .308 rifle platform already in the ACE line?? And also they have straight mags with the 7.62x39 AR mags that would work on there AR platform of the tavor. Then there is the AK 86s bull pup that uses AK mags . So I believe it's doable but perhaps a niche market? ?

erwos · Jun 29, 2017

Boss94 said:
I would agree but looking at it from the other side don't they have a nice .308 rifle platform already in the ACE line??

My point wasn't really that they had a 7.62x39 rifle per se, but that the one they had was going to be better than a 7.62x39 Tavor due to the magazine situation. Those 7.62x51 mags are all straight-insert mags. In fact, they specifically modified the ACE in 7.62x51 to use SR-25 mags - the original version used the old Galil modified M14 mags.

And also they have straight mags with the 7.62x39 AR mags that would work on there AR platform of the tavor.

As I alluded to earlier, those magazines are not really all that well-regarded, rightly or wrongly. Consider how well the PSA KS-47 and CMMG Mk47 did compared to all the other 7.62x39 AR-15s.

Then there is the AK 86s bull pup that uses AK mags . So I believe it's doable but perhaps a niche market? ?

One of the big critiques of the 86s was, in fact, that mag changes were tricky due to the lack of space between the pistol grip and the magazine well. So it's not really the example I would use.

X95/Tavor in .308!

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