#4 buck shot

pbharvey · May 10, 2015

teratos said:
Everyone hits the floor. Best thing I could come up with. I know where I can and can't shoot.

Just an observation as I'm reading this on mother's day: good luck keeping your wife away from sweeping up the kids or the kids away from running into mom's arms. Age matters but still, its human nature.

fabsroman · May 10, 2015

rico903 said:
Well, a lot more info than I anticipated when I originally posted. Living alone in a condo, with concrete between me and the neighbors, and only one entrance, #4 Buckshot will be my choice. Also have a handful of old Remingtion rifled slugs should the need arise.

If I was in your situation, I would be using slugs. Concrete between me and anybody else that might be innocent/good, I would be using a rifle for sure, but 2nd choice would be a shotgun with slugs or #00.

teratos · May 10, 2015

pbharvey said:
Just an observation as I'm reading this on mother's day: good luck keeping your wife away from sweeping up the kids or the kids away from running into mom's arms. Age matters but still, its human nature.

That's why you gotta drill.

Overboost44 · May 10, 2015

Fabs, I watched the video that I posted, and in case you didn't realize it, it is part one of 4 parts. Part one is some small pistol calibers. Pt 2 has some shotgun loads. Pt 3 gets into birdshot and .223. Part 4 gets into knock down power. Each video will lead you to the next one.

44man · May 10, 2015

fabsroman said:
The moment you cycle the action or you pull the trigger, your bedside shotgun no longer has 9 rounds of #4 buckshot in it, even if there is a bucket of ammo sitting right next to it. Even if you are the fastest reloader in the world, you will still be down to 8 rounds in the gun for a couple nano-seconds. Hence, the reason ALWAYS is almost ALWAYS false. lol

spoken like a true lawyer

44man · May 10, 2015

teratos said:
I would not trust the life of my family to #4. Low penetration, not enough major trauma/energy transfer to stop someone. Remember, boys and girls, the name of the game is energy transfer into tissues to overwhelm the central nervous system and drop the threat in his tracks. I keep 00 Buck in my HD shotgun. If #4 were all that, why don't police and military use it? Probably because it doesn't do what they want it to.

I have 2 buckets full that say "intended for police use" on them. I don't remember where I got them though. its copper plated #4.

teratos · May 10, 2015

44man said:
I have 2 buckets full that say "intended for police use" on them. I don't remember where I got them though. its copper plated #4.

Also, you don't know what the intended purpose is. DNR police keep the airport waterfowl populations down, among other activities, with firearm.

mopar92 · May 10, 2015

44man said:
I have 2 buckets full that say "intended for police use" on them. I don't remember where I got them though. its copper plated #4.

Those are riot control or breaching rounds.

Look up "skipping buckshot" for riot dispersion.
Birdshot is generally preferred as the energy isn't retained as well. But with heavier stuff, the energy retention may help identify those present at a later time.

teratos · May 10, 2015

mopar92 said:
Those are riot control or breaching rounds. Look up "skipping buckshot" for riot dispersion. Birdshot is generally preferred as the energy isn't retained as well. But with heavier stuff, the energy retention may help identify those present at a later time.

That will work in an HD situation 99% of the time.

fabsroman · May 10, 2015

44man said:
spoken like a true lawyer

Why, thank you very much. lol

Streetgang · May 10, 2015

I know I'm late to the game but I'll put in my 2 cents.
My primary go to gun is a pistol. Hornady XTP 9mm. The shottie is loaded with 00 buck alternating with slugs. When we go to bed at night, bedroom doors are locked. This slows intruders down normally as they generally want to be quiet until they're upon you. Chances are good they'll try the door before barging through.
I'm not too concerned about others in the house as my fields of fire from my room aren't affected by the other occupied rooms in the house.
The pistol is close, close enough that if an intruder was physically on me, I'd still be able to retrieve it and present at point blank.
We also leave a light on downstairs and none upstairs where the bedrooms are. This give us good night vision and the intruder(s) poor night vision allowing me a tactical advantage.
Things to ponder.

engineerbrian · May 10, 2015

mopar92 said:
Those are riot control or breaching rounds.

Look up "skipping buckshot" for riot dispersion.
Birdshot is generally preferred as the energy isn't retained as well. But with heavier stuff, the energy retention may help identify those present at a later time.

Pretty slick. Never heard of that one

http://blog.suarezinternational.com/2014/07/skipping-buckshot.html#.VU_xPNm9K0c

rico903 · May 11, 2015

fabsroman said:
If I was in your situation, I would be using slugs. Concrete between me and anybody else that might be innocent/good, I would be using a rifle for sure, but 2nd choice would be a shotgun with slugs or #00.

Only worry is actual entrance door which faces into the hallway. No concrete or brick there as far as I know, but maybe there is concrete in that small wall also. Though penetrating the steel entrance door and having a round go across the hallway into neighbor's unit is very remote. Seeing that #1 buckshot is available I'll probably take that route, Unlike a lot of people on here I'm not too worried about my residence being breeched. Electronic lock on main entrance door and I'm on the 3rd floor. Have a steel door into unit. Only way to my BR is straight down the hallway. And I do have my CZ P-01 in my nite stand. Should probably use my other 9 or 45 with threaded barrels and keep my can on them. Need to get a TB for the CZ as it's my favorite. I'm not crazy about the thought of firing a rifle indoors.

Pinecone · May 11, 2015

mopar92 said:
with a 3/8" steel plate secured to the back of one bookcase preferably the one in front.

Have you ever shot 3/8" steel plate?

Stops pistols, but do NOTHING against 5.56 or 7.62 if you decide on a rifle for HD.

44man · May 11, 2015

mopar92 said:
Those are riot control or breaching rounds.

Look up "skipping buckshot" for riot dispersion.
Birdshot is generally preferred as the energy isn't retained as well. But with heavier stuff, the energy retention may help identify those present at a later time.

pretty cool, thanks.

44man · May 11, 2015

teratos said:
Also, you don't know what the intended purpose is. DNR police keep the airport waterfowl populations down, among other activities, with firearm.

I am sure they will kill geese. they will also kill deer and deer are far tougher to than people.

I "tested " a bunch of stuff in my own way and the penetration I got with the #4 plated buckshot along with the consistency of the pattern and the size of the shot is why I use it. 00 spreads at a distance and over penetrates , in my opinion.

everyone has their own opinion and what they are confident with and I say they should use what they are confident with. just my 2 cents.

mopar92 · May 11, 2015

Pinecone said:
Have you ever shot 3/8" steel plate?

Stops pistols, but do NOTHING against 5.56 or 7.62 if you decide on a rifle for HD.

Yeah I know. But couple that with two layers of thick books, wood, the wall and associated accoutrement and the chances of penetration along the intended path are greatly reduced.

Unless you're one of those idiots that decided to use M855 or AP for Home Defense.
They make quality hollowpoints and soft points now. Or did ya not get the memo?

jwhite407 · May 11, 2015

It's what my wife has in her 20GA Maverick88 that I modified to 18.5"bbl and pistol grip. She approves for HD.

Traveler · May 11, 2015

#4 buckshot, and birdshot, are lousy ideas. We really need a sticky thread. This keeps coming up again and again. #1 buck, at a minimum.

Many experienced shooters prefer #4 or #1 buckshot to 00. I really cannot argue, but Lt. Marshall is on record as stating that 00 is superior in penetration. (Obviously, as the heavier a round lead projectile is, the better it penetrates tissue.) Good enough for me, but if you have a #4 or #1 buckshot jones, go ahead (Ayoob and other authorities favor #1). Stay away from 2-3/4" Magnum or 3" Magnum loads, however. The brutal kick of these rounds makes them a bad choice and you gain little in stopping power over the 2-3/4" standard loads. Controllability is important, and standard 12 gauge shells have quite enough kick as it is.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

fred333 · May 11, 2015

If you define Home Defense (HD) as being the average distance within the average room in an average home, then I'd say ~5'~20' is the operating range within which a given firearm/ammo combination must be able to stop an attacker. If you also need to keep collateral damage to a minimum, the ammo must deliver a neutralizing punch to the target without passing through the target or breaching more than two layers of drywall separated by 4"–the width of the average 2x4, or one average wall.

I've seen a goodly number of tests performed by fairly reliable organizations that cite bird shot as meeting the above definition. Although this video was cited earlier, I think this particular episode makes the case, so it bears re-viewing:

#4 buck shot

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