Supreme Court Takes Major NRA Second Amendment Case from New York

krucam · Jul 8, 2019

Paul Clement and NYSRPA respond to mootness letter...
http://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketP...151746089_2019-7-8 NYSRPA response letter.pdf

ddestruel · Jul 8, 2019

SCOTUS now shows both nyc’s letter and plaintiffs response as rejected and not filed.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/18-280.html

danb · Jul 8, 2019

Rejected?

Mike OTDP · Jul 8, 2019

Sounds like SCOTUS means to take this case.

jcutonilli · Jul 8, 2019

Mike OTDP said:
Sounds like SCOTUS means to take this case.

It sounds like SCOTUS is rejecting both responses because they do not meet the requirements of SCOTUS rules. The motion to dismiss requires a formal motion (ie brief) and not a letter.

krucam · Jul 9, 2019

https://www.scotusblog.com/2019/07/city-tells-justices-new-york-gun-case-is-moot/#more-287840

press1280 · Jul 9, 2019

It is premature for the city to say the case is moot. The Governor only has a small window to veto legislation (I'm assuming of he does nothing it becomes law). Why wouldn't they just wait a few extra days?

Some Guy · Jul 9, 2019

jcutonilli said:
It sounds like SCOTUS is rejecting both responses because they do not meet the requirements of SCOTUS rules. The motion to dismiss requires a formal motion (ie brief) and not a letter.

Too bad, De Blasio. We know you really wanted your letter to be not-disapproved, but it looks like it's been not not disapproved. :lol2:

press1280 · Jul 12, 2019

The mootness bill passed both houses on June 20, yet on the bills page there's no other entry (Like "Sent to Governor"). I also noticed a footnote in NYC's letter stating there's no timetable for the Governor to act.
If I didn't know any better I'd think the fact the letter is being sent before the bill is signed may be a very underhanded attempt at a bait and switch by N.Y..

danb · Jul 12, 2019

Its tempting to conclude that, however, I see a many dozens of bills passed June 17th, 18th, 19th, and 20th in the same status (https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation, status as passed both house and senate but not delivered for signature). Not sure the process in NY, but in MD they have 30 days to deliver the bill for signature (and usually take all the time they have) and then gov has another 20 to sign or veto. Bills may automatically become law without a signature in NY after the consideration period (again, not sure of exact process). Regardless of the details, the legislative process usually takes some time to get a .gov signature. I doubt even NY would risk SCOTUS wrath by playing games - especially when there are other cases in the pipeline.

Inigoes · Jul 12, 2019

While the Legislature is in session, the Governor has 10 days (not counting Sundays) to sign or veto bills passed by both houses. Signed bills become law; vetoed bills do not. However, the Governor's failure to sign or veto a bill within the 10-day period means that it becomes law automatically.

If a bill is sent to the Governor when the Legislature is out of session, the rules are a bit different. At such times, the Governor has 30 days in which to make a decision, and failure to act ("pocket veto") has the same effect as a veto.

https://www.nysenate.gov/how-bill-becomes-law-1

press1280 · Jul 12, 2019

danb said:
Its tempting to conclude that, however, I see a many dozens of bills passed June 17th, 18th, 19th, and 20th in the same status (https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation, status as passed both house and senate but not delivered for signature). Not sure the process in NY, but in MD they have 30 days to deliver the bill for signature (and usually take all the time they have) and then gov has another 20 to sign or veto. Bills may automatically become law without a signature in NY after the consideration period (again, not sure of exact process). Regardless of the details, the legislative process usually takes some time to get a .gov signature. I doubt even NY would risk SCOTUS wrath by playing games - especially when there are other cases in the pipeline.

You're probably right but it's just a head scratcher why they would bother sending these letters to Scotus when nothing is yet even official

danb · Jul 12, 2019

press1280 said:
You're probably right but it's just a head scratcher why they would bother sending these letters to Scotus when nothing is yet even official

... and get rejected! Which I have never seen. I am sure it happens but it's a real smack.

I can only speculate that self delusion and arrogance are a powerful drug cocktail.

I know Bloomberg has placed some attorneys in key places like MD and NY to help defend certain causes like climate change regs and gun laws, so maybe this is the product of an inexperienced newbie hired by Bloomberg.

Whatever the reason, I can only hope the incompetence continues though next year.

Clement did not give up so easily in the two reply briefs, so I suspect he has something up his sleeve.

press1280 · Jul 12, 2019

Good question as to why it was rejected.

A few possibilities-

It doesn't meet Scotus requirements for filings

It's meaningless since the law hasn't changed (come back when it does IOW)

We're hearing the case whether you want it or not!

delaware_export · Jul 12, 2019

I wish they would just hear it and start moving again.

Delay is victory for the anti crowd.

The law is and has been messed up and people have paid the price. The fact that nyc ny is doing something now, after all these years is proof. They know it. The underling courts and judges, the ones that have heard it all the way from first hearing to cert know it.

Please, scotus, hear this case. The sooner the better. Make a ruling. Other cases are waiting.

Just a total non lawyers opinion.

krucam · Jul 12, 2019

The reply brief is still now due Aug 5th. We can all guess the the brief won't discuss the Merits, just the dismissed Mootness docs that were rejected. Believe Clarence Thomas is the biggest advocate of NYSRPA being accepted AND is already discussing this with other Justices on how to address this already accepted case.

danb · Jul 12, 2019

krucam said:
The reply brief is still now due Aug 5th. We can all guess the the brief won't discuss the Merits, just the dismissed Mootness docs that were rejected. Believe Clarence Thomas is the biggest advocate of NYSRPA being accepted AND is already discussing this with other Justices on how to address this already accepted case.

It's a risky strategy. They still have to address merits, in case the Supreme court decides it's not moot. The case is moot when SCOTUS says it is, not when NYC decides it is.

Which means that if they get 15000 words, they spend 7500 on mootness and 7500 on merits- addressing neither one well. Or 0 words on merits- and 15000 on mootness, and SCOTUS decides it's not moot. And boom! They lose merits.

jcutonilli · Jul 12, 2019

press1280 said:
Good question as to why it was rejected.

A few possibilities-

It doesn't meet Scotus requirements for filings

It's meaningless since the law hasn't changed (come back when it does IOW)

We're hearing the case whether you want it or not!

The response letter clearly indicated that they did not follow the rules.

danb said:
It's a risky strategy. They still have to address merits, in case the Supreme court decides it's not moot. The case is moot when SCOTUS says it is, not when NYC decides it is.

Which means that if they get 15000 words, they spend 7500 on mootness and 7500 on merits- addressing neither one well. Or 0 words on merits- and 15000 on mootness, and SCOTUS decides it's not moot. And boom! They lose merits.

The rules recently changed. They only have 13000 words for their reply brief.

I suspect they will file a proper motion to dismiss to give additional wording to address the arguments.

HaveBlue · Jul 12, 2019

delaware_export said:
I

Delay is victory for the anti crowd.

The law is and has been messed up and people have paid the price.

Does anyone track how many people are in jail or turned into felons over these laws? I realize that firearms charges are a favorite chip to be dropped in the plea bargain process.

The anti’s are great at finding victims. The Freedom Club needs to get better at it too.

press1280 · Jul 13, 2019

HaveBlue said:
Does anyone track how many people are in jail or turned into felons over these laws? I realize that firearms charges are a favorite chip to be dropped in the plea bargain process.

The anti’s are great at finding victims. The Freedom Club needs to get better at it too.

That is a good point. If someone was turned into a felon or simply disarmed by this law then that would certainly be a motivating factor for the court to hear the case. The case being mooted would provide no relief for them.

Supreme Court Takes Major NRA Second Amendment Case from New York

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