HB1302-"The Neighborhood Bag Lady Can Take Your Guns" bill

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    smkranz

    smkranz

    Certified Caveman
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 21, 2013
    4,402
    Carroll County
    Hawkeye said:
    I'm not entirely sure you're correct on that one.

    For one: there is no way to "deregister" a regulated firearm from an owner in the MD system, ever. Once it's registered to you, it is registered to you FOREVER. Now, if you sell them to someone in MD, they would *theoretically* be able to see that they were registered to someone else after you, assuming the database isn't as messed up as gun databases usually are (look at the NFARTR for an example). However, if you sell it to someone else out of MD, the MD system will have it registered to you FOREVER. I have sold several regulated firearms to people in other states, and shipped them directly to an FFL in that state. As far as Maryland is concerned, those guns are still registered to me. If MSP ever showed up at my house to seize my guns, all I could say would be "sorry, I sold that years ago to someone in Florida."
    Click to expand...

    Thanks for the clarification. Documentation of having sold a particular weapon could possibly preclude a LEO from having probable cause to arrest you for violating the ERPO and not turning the gun(s) over. But he/she might not be interested in being a finder of fact at your doorstep. As far as the LEO is concerned, he/she is dealing with a judge/commissioner's order to go get your gun(s), based on someone's sworn Complaint that you have them, or take you into custody if you don't comply.

    All of this goes to the lack of due process which this law presents. Unless you luck out with a sympathetic LEO who leaves without arresting you, you could still get arrested and be forced to defend the ERPO, even if you in fact previously sold a weapon.
     
    iH8DemLibz

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    When is the MSP going to update individual gun owner databases and remove the handguns and EBRs that gun owners no longer own?

    They will demand everything on their list.

    Whether you sold them or traded them will not matter to them.

    We'll be jailed until we're able to produce what we're unable to produce. More negatives that can't be proven.
     
    Engine4

    Engine4

    Curmudgeon
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2012
    7,017
    I turned all of my guns in at one of the montgomery county gun buybacks where there are no questions asked & no paperwork. Prove I didn't. :innocent0
     
    smkranz

    smkranz

    Certified Caveman
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 21, 2013
    4,402
    Carroll County
    L

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,757
    swinokur said:
    Two words.


























    Boating accident.
    Click to expand...

    That’s the problem with all these plastic fantastic guns and my crappy no retention holster. I like to carry when I am making s’mores with my kids around my fire pit. You wouldnt believe the number of times I’ve had them fall out of the holster and right in to the fire pit when I’ve been trying to stoke the fire. I don’t value them enough to shove my hand in and the receiver has just melted and burned away by the time I’ve been able to get a stick and fish them out.

    It is a good thing I just carry them unloaded. Just to scare away any ne’er do wells.
     
    zoostation

    zoostation

    , ,
    Moderator
    Jan 28, 2007
    22,857
    Abingdon
    iH8DemLibz said:
    When is the MSP going to update individual gun owner databases and remove the handguns and EBRs that gun owners no longer own?

    They will demand everything on their list.

    Whether you sold them or traded them will not matter to them.

    We'll be jailed until we're able to produce what we're unable to produce. More negatives that can't be proven.
    Click to expand...

    I don't think realistically they'll jail someone just on that. However a trooper or officer somewhere not understanding that the database never updates when guns are transferred from the registree, and getting a search warrant for someone's house for a long disposed gun that MGUN says they still own, is certainly within the realm of possibilities, methinks.

    And since guns are involved and the subject of the search warrant has been accused of being scary, scary, dangerous by his ex after he filed to stop alimony, there is a good chance the subject of any warrant might get the Full Monty SWAT team at the door. Not just Officer Friendly and a couple of uniforms.
     
    Hawkeye

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,972
    Engine4 said:
    I turned all of my guns in at one of the montgomery county gun buybacks where there are no questions asked & no paperwork. Prove I didn't. :innocent0
    Click to expand...

    That would be a possible one which would likely be hard to disprove.

    swinokur said:
    Two words.

    Boating accident.
    Click to expand...

    Except since 10/1/13, if you've had a boating accident and lost any regulated firearms, you are required to report that loss to the MSP within 72 hours of the discover of the loss (or theft, if it was stolen). If you had a boating accident and lost all of your guns and didn't report it, you're already breaking the law.

    Now, if you happened to have had said boating accident on 9/31/13 and haven't bought any new regulated firearms since then...... eh, maybe. Otherwise you're in some trouble.

    zoostation said:
    I don't think realistically they'll jail someone just on that. However a trooper or officer somewhere not understanding that the database never updates when guns are transferred from the registree, and getting a search warrant for someone's house for a long disposed gun that MGUN says they still own, is certainly within the realm of possibilities, methinks.

    And since guns are involved and the subject of the search warrant has been accused of being scary, scary, dangerous by his ex after he filed to stop alimony, there is a good chance the subject of any warrant might get the Full Monty SWAT team at the door. Not just Officer Friendly and a couple of uniforms.
    Click to expand...

    This is exactly the issue. Personally I don't see very many of these getting served by officer friendly, simply because it's a gun seizure from a "potentially dangerous" person. There are going to be a lot of broken doors (which the police aren't legally responsible for), tossed houses, etc.
     
    swinokur

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,507
    Westminster USA
    Originally Posted by swinokur
    Two words.

    Boating accident.
    Click to expand...
    Hawkeye said:
    Except since 10/1/13, if you've had a boating accident and lost any regulated firearms, you are required to report that loss to the MSP within 72 hours of the discover of the loss (or theft, if it was stolen). If you had a boating accident and lost all of your guns and didn't report it, you're already breaking the law.

    Now, if you happened to have had said boating accident on 9/31/13 and haven't bought any new regulated firearms since then...... eh, maybe. Otherwise you're in some trouble.



    This is exactly the issue. Personally I don't see very many of these getting served by officer friendly, simply because it's a gun seizure from a "potentially dangerous" person. There are going to be a lot of broken doors (which the police aren't legally responsible for), tossed houses, etc.
    Click to expand...

    I should have used the tongue-in-cheek emoji
     
    4

    44man

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    10,156
    southern md
    zoostation said:
    I don't think realistically they'll jail someone just on that. However a trooper or officer somewhere not understanding that the database never updates when guns are transferred from the registree, and getting a search warrant for someone's house for a long disposed gun that MGUN says they still own, is certainly within the realm of possibilities, methinks.

    And since guns are involved and the subject of the search warrant has been accused of being scary, scary, dangerous by his ex after he filed to stop alimony, there is a good chance the subject of any warrant might get the Full Monty SWAT team at the door. Not just Officer Friendly and a couple of uniforms.
    Click to expand...

    If I were a betting man I would say 100% of these will be served by a swat team because it’s gun related and yep your doors will be broken, your house and property tossed and unless I miss my guess nearly 100% of the time you will be jailed. And the msp wont be taking “ I don’t have that anymore “ as an answer.

    So I say a man would be a fool to keep all his goodies in md. So I don’t.

    Also now I am wondering what I should do with my dads, grand dads and great grand dads guns and all the guns I have that belonged to dead Germans and dead friends I ended up with.

    I don’t ever want to risk losing them because I piss off a relative or whoever else can lie and get my home raided for revenge.

    Md sucks
     
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