Second Circuit NYC transport law upheld

Blacksmith101 · Feb 25, 2019

rascal said:
nothing is insured. That can be reversed , or whittled to virtually nothing, by any subsequent court. We have just replaced two Republican appointed justices with two other Republican appointed Justices.

If RBG lives 20 months, and chances are she will, than we may be looking at a Democrat President replacing THOMAS or any of the five GOP justices and Heller and McDonald can be refined or adjusted to almost nothing, or totally overturned.

All the more reason to work to see that Trump gets a second term because I doubt she will last 5 years. And at least one of those Republican appointed Justice was replacing a middle of the road and weak on the 2nd Amendment Justice with one who will probably be a much stronger supporter of our rights.

We might even see one of the current cases result in a strict scrutiny applies ruling that would cause a revisit on a bunch of other existing cases.

But if you prefer to look at the glass being half empty that is your prerogative.

Fedora · Apr 23, 2019

esqappellate said:
It does wipe out levels of scrutiny and it looks to either the founding (1789) or the adoption of the 14th Amendment (1868), to determine whether a given sort of gun regulation was present at the time. It's not a blank slate but a vastly different slate. For the best examples, look to Wrenn and Young opinions and Kavanaugh's Heller II dissent.

Today the Court heard Department of Commerce v. New York. This is the one about returning a citizenship question to the 2020 census. Such a question was asked every census from 1820 to 1950. From 1960 to 2000 the question was asked on some but not all forms. In 2010 there was no such question, but the Trump administration wishes to resume the inquiry with the 2020.

Would this not be an appropriate opportunity to introduce the Text-History-Tradition filter?

Link:
http://amylhowe.com/2019/04/02/just...census-citizenship-question-in-plain-english/

danb · Apr 23, 2019

I am afraid to ask but what does Department of Commerce v. New York have to do with NYSRPA vs NYC?

Fedora · Apr 24, 2019

danb said:
I am afraid to ask but what does Department of Commerce v. New York have to do with NYSRPA vs NYC?

Good question, sir. I should have taken more time with that.

At least from Heller, which if memory serves, stated that limiting the 2nd Amendment would require something more than rational basis, the courts have employed tiers of scrutiny in 2A matters. Thus we have the famous "two-step": the employment of intermediate scrutiny immediately followed by the announcement "but the core right is not implicated".

The NYSRPA thread had alluded to the possibility of SCOTUS replacing scrutiny with a text-history-tradition paradigm shift. Should it happen, one would expect push-back from the inferior courts. As we've seen, they'll find a way . . .

An inoculation is in order, and Dept. of Commerce v New York may be an appropriate vehicle to introduce (or re-introduce) the text-history-tradition model, thus managing to the extent possible the anticipated push-back when (if) NYSRPA follows that path.

Thanks for the mulligan.

Not_an_outlaw · Apr 24, 2019

Text, History, Tradition - I'm not liking this for modern firearms. Who's to say a judge doesn't say there no tradition or history in semi-auto.

Rab1515 · Apr 24, 2019

Not_an_outlaw said:
Text, History, Tradition - I'm not liking this for modern firearms. Who's to say a judge doesn't say there no tradition or history in semi-auto.

It would be incredibly difficult to back that up. Not to say it wont be tried, but a simple comparison the tech of the day would destroy the argument.

Inigoes · Apr 24, 2019

Not_an_outlaw said:
Text, History, Tradition - I'm not liking this for modern firearms. Who's to say a judge doesn't say there no tradition or history in semi-auto.

Semiautomatics have been around for 100 years, they aren't new.

Machineguns are 120 years old...

danb · Apr 24, 2019

Not_an_outlaw said:
Text, History, Tradition - I'm not liking this for modern firearms. Who's to say a judge doesn't say there no tradition or history in semi-auto.

That argument was already rejected repeatedly- in Heller and 1st, 4th amendment, and other cases. Supreme Court has repeatedly rejected the idea that technological change restricts the scope of a right. the 4th applies to GPS, phone and computer searches, just as the 1st applies to the internet (and not solely printing presses).

If you dont believe me, go back and read the Per Curiam opinion in Caetano where they smacked the MA Supreme Court for assuming Tasers were not protected because they were relatively new. They GVRd Caetano without even oral arguments...

The court offered three explanations to support its holding that the Second Amendment does not extend to stun guns. First, the court explained that stun guns are not protected because they "were not in common use at the time of the Second Amendment's enactment." Id., at 781, 26 N.E.3d, at 693. This is inconsistent with Heller 's clear statement that the Second Amendment "extends ... to ... arms ... that were not in existence at the time of the founding." 554 U.S., at 582, 128 S.Ct. 2783.

https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/caetano-v-massachusetts/

A PC opinion is a real smackdown, so I'd be hard pressed to think a judge would now find to the contrary.

Blacksmith101 · Apr 24, 2019

Inigoes said:
Semiautomatics have been around for 100 years, they aren't new.

Machineguns are 120 years old...

Don't forget the Lewis and Clark repeating air rifle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle

200 years old.

Inigoes · Apr 24, 2019

Blacksmith101 said:
Don't forget the Lewis and Clark repeating air rifle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle

200 years old.

That's a BB gun!

Bob A · Apr 24, 2019

Inigoes said:
That's a BB gun!

. . . And regulated in NJ. A state with its own tradition.

Fox123 · Apr 24, 2019

Inigoes said:
That's a BB gun!

Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front shoulda told ya

Not_an_outlaw · Apr 24, 2019

Inigoes said:
Semiautomatics have been around for 100 years, they aren't new.

Machineguns are 120 years old...

I agree, but not everyone sees it the same way. There are modern distinctions.

Blacksmith101 · Apr 25, 2019

Inigoes said:
That's a BB gun!

BB's were a lot bigger back then. I remember when you only got 33 BB's to the pound......

Kharn · Apr 25, 2019

Not_an_outlaw said:
I agree, but not everyone sees it the same way. There are modern distinctions.

Potato diggers for all.

ironpony · Apr 25, 2019

When was the first FA black powder firearm introduced?

Inigoes · Apr 25, 2019

ironpony said:
When was the first FA black powder firearm introduced?

1885, the Maxim Machine prototype used black powder.

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-first-maxim-machine-gun/

ironpony · Apr 25, 2019

Very interesting thanks, I was kidding. Maxim got this to work with the lower pressures of black powder and it had an adjustable rate of fire.

Second Circuit NYC transport law upheld

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