KNS anti rotational trigger pins

rockstarr · May 24, 2016

Thoughts on these? I was thinking about adding them to my delton sierra. Ive heard stories of folks having the stock ones moving

chesapeakeIRON · May 24, 2016

rockstarr said:
Thoughts on these? I was thinking about adding them to my delton sierra. Ive heard stories of folks having the stock ones moving

I use them on all my ARs - I have had mil spec trigger pins slide out slightly during operation

they also help with keeping the pins from rolling in the receiver holes, which could cause wear

jakbob · May 24, 2016

rockstarr said:
Thoughts on these? I was thinking about adding them to my delton sierra. Ive heard stories of folks having the stock ones moving

they are just finger rests. where the pins meet the lower receiver is a lube point, keep it lubed and you're good to go.

also, with the tension on the pins, they do rotate. if they are coming out of the receiver, that would be more of a hammer spring issue, as the tongue on one side actually sits in a detent on the pin. also makes it harder to pull out your trigger group to clean in there if you are the kind of shooter that puts in work with his rifles. just food for thought.

j_h_smith · May 24, 2016

You will probably find just as many people that use them that don't. It's just another personal item for your AR. I doubt either side can give you scientific/engineering reasons that they are good/bad for your AR.

YMMV,

outrider58 · May 24, 2016

jakbob said:
they are just finger rests. where the pins meet the lower receiver is a lube point, keep it lubed and you're good to go.

also, with the tension on the pins, they do rotate. if they are coming out of the receiver, that would be more of a hammer spring issue, as the tongue on one side actually sits in a detent on the pin. also makes it harder to pull out your trigger group to clean in there if you are the kind of shooter that puts in work with his rifles. just food for thought.

^^^ This. They are not needed. If your pins are walking, you have other problems in your FCG to address.

jimbobborg · May 24, 2016

I have one set. It came with the POF trigger I got from Joe Bob's. They're needed in this application as the trigger pack is held in place by the screws of the KNS system. It floats inside the lower.

Mdeng · May 24, 2016

Pins are softer and not recommended for use with Geissle triggers.

DC-W · May 24, 2016

I have a set, as they were a generous trade from a good member here. They look great on the AR.

I've heard them described as cheap insurance, but I don't think they're necessary at all.
Plenty of guns in service being used to kick ass right now don't have them.

clandestine · May 24, 2016

j_h_smith said:
You will probably find just as many people that use them that don't. It's just another personal item for your AR. I doubt either side can give you scientific/engineering reasons that they are good/bad for your AR.

YMMV,

IME/IMO, they are a waste of money. I believed the marketing till I saw issues from customer ARs with them installed.

The design of the AR allows the pins to float. Unless you remove the FCG constantly which is where most wear happens, this rotation will never wear out the lower receiver.

KNS Pins require tools to remove them. MILSPEC Pins dont.

KNS Pins are softer than MILSPEC
Pins which means they gall, and can cause decreased hammer speed, and failures for the trigger to reset.

KNS Pins should not be used with good triggers like Geissele. Email Geissele and ask.

photoracer · May 24, 2016

Just because Geissele says not to use them has nothing to do with whether they work or not (he does not make any money on them). Most of the competitive 3-gunners I know who use Geissele triggers (me included) use the KNS pins. We have seen too many mil-spec pins come out regardless of the detents. I have been using the combo since around 2010. Just one less thing to worry about even if it never happens.

j_h_smith · May 24, 2016

j_h_smith said:
You will probably find just as many people that use them that don't. It's just another personal item for your AR. I doubt either side can give you scientific/engineering reasons that they are good/bad for your AR.

YMMV,

clandestine said:
IME/IMO, they are a waste of money. I believed the marketing till I saw issues from customer ARs with them installed.

The design of the AR allows the pins to float. Unless you remove the FCG constantly which is where most wear happens, this rotation will never wear out the lower receiver.

KNS Pins require tools to remove them. MILSPEC Pins dont.

KNS Pins are softer than MILSPEC
Pins which means they gall, and can cause decreased hammer speed, and failures for the trigger to reset.

KNS Pins should not be used with good triggers like Geissele. Email Geissele and ask.

photoracer said:
Just because Geissele says not to use them has nothing to do with whether they work or not (he does not make any money on them). Most of the competitive 3-gunners I know who use Geissele triggers (me included) use the KNS pins. We have seen too many mil-spec pins come out regardless of the detents. I have been using the combo since around 2010. Just one less thing to worry about even if it never happens.

This is exactly my point. Some like them. Some don't like them. There isn't any proof one way or the other that they are good or bad for your receiver. If you like them, install them. If you don't like them, your AR will function just fine without them.

Just another tool in my opinion. Use that tool if you want to, no big deal if you don't.

clandestine · May 24, 2016

When 3 gunners cant get their gun running they have guys like me figure out the problem.

OrbitalEllipses · May 24, 2016

photoracer said:
Just because Geissele says not to use them has nothing to do with whether they work or not (he does not make any money on them).

I've always imagined that it's because Bill G's pins are slightly oversize for a tighter fit.

pop-gunner · May 24, 2016

If you ever blow a primer and have it lodge down in the FCG I hope you have your 2 little allen wrenches with you.

GottaEat · May 24, 2016

I use them on an 80% lower because I drilled out the holes a little too big. Other factory lower has never had issues with the pin walking out so see no need.

Boss94 · May 24, 2016

I have 1 gun that the pins walk out on. Put a set of kns pins and no more issues. All my other guns go without. Just have that 1 in the bunch and when it would walk out it locked the trigger up.

jimbobborg · May 24, 2016

pop-gunner said:
If you ever blow a primer and have it lodge down in the FCG I hope you have your 2 little allen wrenches with you.

I have a pair of forceps for that :innocent0

jrumann59 · May 24, 2016

Just be aware on new builds they should be fine if it is a standard trigger. As chad said it may cause issues with drop ins. On older rifles and maybe on newer ones with poor anodizing, if the anodizing is worn or gone do not use them. Most of them are stainless steel which reacts galvanically with aluminum which means even though it is stainless it will rust and corrode and cause issues later.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

outrider58 · May 24, 2016

jimbobborg said:
I have a pair of forceps for that

They have many uses...as I recall... :innocent0

jakbob · May 25, 2016

clandestine said:
When 3 gunners cant get their gun running they have guys like ME figure out the problem.

FIFY. No scientific knowledge except for the fact that he is an armorer, who specializes in DI ar-15's. With specifics lol :lol2:

KNS anti rotational trigger pins

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