PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED

5.7 · Apr 13, 2012

esqappellate said:
Well, as you know, I don't give legal advice, but I will share with you what I plan on doing, as I am the same position as you (filing pre-stay). If they have not acted on my application, I plan on sitting on it until the Stay is decided, even if that means NOT going to the Board on the 91th day. The stay will be decided in June by Judge Legg. It is not much of a wait. If the stay is denied by Judge Legg, I will wait for it to be decided by the CA4 if the State is so foolish as to seek a stay from the court of appeals. When and if the stay is denied by the CA4, I will wait a small amount of time and see what is happening to pending applications and then make a decision whether to push my application to the Board.

Thanks. I don't mind the wait, I just didn't want to miss an opportunity based on a "date/day" clock and screw myself. Thanks for sharing what you plan to do. I was thinking that was the way to go.

OEH · Apr 13, 2012

Question on the "90 days to act" part. I thought that I read somewhere that the state considers 90 days to consist of 90 work days as opposed to 90 consecutive calendar days. Wouldn't that push the time-frame out toward July? Anybody else remember this or was it just a nightmare that I had?

Mr H · Apr 13, 2012

Merlin said:
Thanks for the help. I will try to do better. I made the mistake of reading from the start of the thread and answer the posts as a read. I guess I should have started at the end to see where we were.

Happens to the best of us...

Inigoes · Apr 13, 2012

OEH said:
Question on the "90 days to act" part. I thought that I read somewhere that the state considers 90 days to consist of 90 work days as opposed to 90 consecutive calendar days. Wouldn't that push the time-frame out toward July? Anybody else remember this or was it just a nightmare that I had?

Don't bet on that. 90 days is 90 days, unless you can find an authority in writing outside of § 5-312

BUFF7MM · Apr 13, 2012

esqappellate said:
Well, as you know, I don't give legal advice, but I will share with you what I plan on doing, as I am the same position as you (filing pre-stay). If they have not acted on my application, I plan on sitting on it until the Stay is decided, even if that means NOT going to the Board on the 91th day. The stay will be decided in June by Judge Legg. It is not much of a wait. If the stay is denied by Judge Legg, I will wait for it to be decided by the CA4 if the State is so foolish as to seek a stay from the court of appeals. When and if the stay is denied by the CA4, I will wait a small amount of time and see what is happening to pending applications and then make a decision whether to push my application to the Board.

I'm in the same boat as the others (pre stay) with the exception on no contact from MSP since they received my application on the 14th of March.
What should I do if I have heard nothing by day 90, I'm sure they are sitting on my application as they are with the others. Not expecting legal advise, just friendly advise.

dlmcbm · Apr 13, 2012

OEH said:
Question on the "90 days to act" part. I thought that I read somewhere that the state considers 90 days to consist of 90 work days as opposed to 90 consecutive calendar days. Wouldn't that push the time-frame out toward July? Anybody else remember this or was it just a nightmare that I had?

I could have swore that I saw that somewhere also. I could never find it again so I never brought it back up.

This is what I saw so its 90 buisness days till they should have our permits ready. I guess you havee to allow it before contacting them about it. That would put me to July 19th without any holiday ect.
MAIL THE APPLICATION PACKET TO THE LICENSING DIVISION AT THE ADDRESS PROVIDED ABOVE. ALLOW 90 BUSINESS DAYS FOR THE COMPLETION OF THE APPLICATION PROCESS.
from:http://www.mdsp.org/Organization/SupportServicesBureau/LicensingDivision/HandgunPermit.aspx

petergriffin · Apr 13, 2012

I know it's off topic but the link to the Woollard case on SAF.org has been down all morning and afternoon. I wanted to check for updates or a transcript of the conference they had but no luck.

But on topic, my app was received by MSP on 3/09/12. Check cashed on 3/12/12 and so far no contact at all from MSP. If they don't do anything on the 85th day I will write to them asking them what the hold up is. I say 85th day so my letter has time to reach them before the 90th day.

dlmcbm · Apr 13, 2012

petergriffin said:
I know it's off topic but the link to the Woollard case on SAF.org has been down all morning and afternoon. I wanted to check for updates or a transcript of the conference they had but no luck.

But on topic, my app was received by MSP on 3/09/12. Check cashed on 3/12/12 and so far no contact at all from MSP. If they don't do anything on the 85th day I will write to them asking them what the hold up is. I say 85th day so my letter has time to reach them before the 90th day.

See my post right above yours. 90 business days plus I would not push them is a stay is in effect. you will just push them to deny you.

petergriffin · Apr 13, 2012

This may have been answered before but please bare with me. If any legal experts could chime in I understand it's not legal advice. Does the stay mean that the decision is put on hold, but the MSP can continue to deny applications as if there was no injunction? I thought the stay means don't deny based on G&S reasons and don't approve without G&S. in other words only approve those who have G&S but do nothing to those applications without G&S.

What remedy would we have if we applied post decision, but pre stay. Has a stay been decided on? I thought I saw a signed order on March 30,2012 granting a stay. If you can go down my post and answer each question I appreciate it.

petergriffin · Apr 13, 2012

dlmcbm said:
See my post right above yours. 90 business days plus I would not push them is a stay is in effect. you will just push them to deny you.

Donkey Stains!!

esqappellate · Apr 13, 2012

petergriffin said:
This may have been answered before but please bare with me. If any legal experts could chime in I understand it's not legal advice. Does the stay mean that the decision is put on hold, but the MSP can continue to deny applications as if there was no injunction? I thought the stay means don't deny based on G&S reasons and don't approve without G&S. in other words only approve those who have G&S but do nothing to those applications without G&S.

What remedy would we have if we applied post decision, but pre stay. Has a stay been decided on? I thought I saw a signed order on March 30,2012 granting a stay. If you can go down my post and answer each question I appreciate it.

A stay means that the injunction is not given effect. Which means that the State can continue to apply 5(ii) as before and actually deny applications on that basis. I think the State could probably do the same with pre-stay applications as well, if they wanted to do so as a stay normally relates back to the date of the decision being stayed, viz., March 2. They may have decided that it wasn't worth doing so since they had already cashed those checks and started to process. Cutting a check takes money out of pocket as opposed to returning a check. (In their bureaucratic world, that makes a difference). It is easier to just hold those applications and do nothing. Returning post-stay applications, checks uncashed, allows them to limit the need to process if they lose the stay, as the returned applicant has to reapply and other persons are, in the meantime, deterred from applying in the first place. Returning applications thus also potentially serves the State's avowed purpose of limiting the number of persons who are allowed to carry.

The stay currently in effect from the April order is temporary, just until Judge Legg decides on the request for a full stay pending appeal, probably in June, at which time the court could lift the temporary stay and allow the injunction to take effect.

CypherPunk · Apr 13, 2012

petergriffin said:
I know it's off topic but the link to the Woollard case on SAF.org has been down all morning and afternoon. I wanted to check for updates or a transcript of the conference they had but no luck.

But on topic, my app was received by MSP on 3/09/12. Check cashed on 3/12/12 and so far no contact at all from MSP. If they don't do anything on the 85th day I will write to them asking them what the hold up is. I say 85th day so my letter has time to reach them before the 90th day.

us.archive.org appears to be having database or web server issues.
The raw data can be found here:
http://ia700501.us.archive.org/1/items/gov.uscourts.mdd.180772/
look for any link ending in *.pdf.
There does not appear to be any recently uploaded documents.

Smagel · Apr 13, 2012

Just in case someone new reads this, yes, another option is missing: file an appeal with the review board. Info on doing that is elsewhere in this thread.

Dead Eye said:
It's all the other stuff. Again ESQ summed it ALL up three pages back. Sorry, but I can't post the 'beating a dead horse' icon, from my cellphone.

50 whatever pages...

If you've applied already, post Woollard and pre stay, your app.is in a pile until the 24th of May.

If you apply now, the MDSP is going to return your app for anything other than "good and substantial".

If you want to continue, notify them and they'll take your money and tell you no, but it keeps your app alive.

Apply with "good and substantial" and they will process it as such.

Did I miss anything?

petergriffin · Apr 13, 2012

esqappellate said:
A stay means that the injunction is not given effect. Which means that the State can continue to apply 5(ii) as before and actually deny applications on that basis. I think the State could probably do the same with pre-stay applications as well, if they wanted to do so as a stay normally relates back to the date of the decision being stayed, viz., March 2. They may have decided that it wasn't worth doing so since they had already cashed those checks and started to process. Cutting a check takes money out of pocket as opposed to returning a check. (In their bureaucratic world, that makes a difference). It is easier to just hold those applications and do nothing. Returning post-stay applications, checks uncashed, allows them to limit the need to process if they lose the stay, as the returned applicant has to reapply and other persons are, in the meantime, deterred from applying in the first place. Returning applications thus also potentially serves the State's avowed purpose of limiting the number of persons who are allowed to carry.

The stay currently in effect from the April order is temporary, just until Judge Legg decides on the request for a full stay pending appeal, probably in June, at which time the court could lift the temporary stay and allow the injunction to take effect.

Thanks ESQ for the clarification and thanks bpowers for the link.

JMangle · Apr 13, 2012

Patrick said:
Florida even asks if you are a fugitive from the law. I love that one.

When my friend went to apply to MSP, they asked the applicants something along the lines of, "Who here as a warrant, there's always one." Apparently there was, and he left in cuffs.

[Edit: Applying to be a State Trooper, not handgun permit related]

And is it just me, or is MDS banning people like CA bans guns? I thought the mods just beat people to keep them in line....

Mr H · Apr 13, 2012

JMangle said:
And is it just me, or is MDS banning people like CA bans guns? I thought the mods just beat people to keep them in line....

Repeat offenders have a rubber hose special just for them, I think.....

OEH · Apr 13, 2012

dlmcbm said:
I could have swore that I saw that somewhere also. I could never find it again so I never brought it back up.

This is what I saw so its 90 buisness days till they should have our permits ready. I guess you havee to allow it before contacting them about it. That would put me to July 19th without any holiday ect.
MAIL THE APPLICATION PACKET TO THE LICENSING DIVISION AT THE ADDRESS PROVIDED ABOVE. ALLOW 90 BUSINESS DAYS FOR THE COMPLETION OF THE APPLICATION PROCESS.
from:http://www.mdsp.org/Organization/SupportServicesBureau/LicensingDivision/HandgunPermit.aspx

Thanks,
I knew I'd seen it somewhere too.

Inigoes said:
Don't bet on that. 90 days is 90 days, unless you can find an authority in writing outside of § 5-312

You don't have to say it, I already know... (I was right he he he)

BTW did you put your pink sticker on your vehicle yet? :outta her

Merlin · Apr 13, 2012

Dead Eye said:
Again, no one is ranting, and yes some gets lost in translation, but it's all been said. Over and over, it's kind of like talking to one of your teenage kids, you say, "hey, this what will happen..." they go ahead and do it anyway. OK, I tried, so go ahead and do it anyway.

Well many of us are excited by the current events of what is going on. I am very guilty of rehashing the same things that have been said often because I start at the start of a thread and answer posts with my comments as I go.

Making some people mad sometimes for whatever reason. But each post I send in is meant to help and be constructive no matter if I'm rehashing or not. Either way I'm not complaining about others that participate. Nor do I complain about other post by saying their post was not interesting enough or it had already been said.

This group is a great bunch of people that do allot of good for the gun world. If it were not for MSI Maryland gun laws would look much different. They are doing a great job that I thank them for.

If you feel your reading to much stuff over and over maybe we are wasting your time.

If you have something helpful or constructive to say by all means. If all you have are complaints it will not hurt anyone's feelings if you want to leave.

But I guess if/when I go to a new thread I better read evey single post before I sent in a post of my own so Dead Eye does not have to read the same thing two times.

Inigoes · Apr 13, 2012

OEH said:
BTW did you put your pink sticker on your vehicle yet?

Don't make me train those beavers to build a dam downstream

BUFF7MM · Apr 13, 2012

Merlin, you don't have to worry about Dead Eye for at least a week, he got the temporary ban hammer today.

PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED

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