Online AR15 barrel help

danb · Dec 12, 2018

MDEXPAT said:
It has the HB profile. I have both HB's and A1 profile uppers and you can tell visually. If need be, the manufacturer can state "Heavy Barrel" on the receipt.

Website says that 16-inch barrel weighs 1.9lbs, which I would say is a "heavy barrel". Considering their M16A2 20" barrel comes in at 2.05 pounds.

Visually is not good enough. Does not matter if its 400lbs and 15 inches in diameter.

It has to be MARKED or MARKETED (advertised) as heavy barrel. If they give you a receipt that's ok, most don't give a rats ass about Maryland though (buy it, or don't). But it should be in writing.

Rockzilla · Dec 13, 2018

danb said:
More options, including black nitride: https://www.classicfirearms.com/accessories/barrels/223_5.56-16in-heavy/?stock=1

Have bought a many a barrel from them, some not avail
anymore, good people, good company..
not match grade, no problems shoot pretty good for
what they are and cost.

-Rock

DaemonAssassin · Dec 13, 2018

danb said:
Visually is not good enough. Does not matter if its 400lbs and 15 inches in diameter.

It has to be MARKED or MARKETED (advertised) as heavy barrel. If they give you a receipt that's ok, most don't give a rats ass about Maryland though (buy it, or don't). But it should be in writing.

That is not the law, it is only MSP guidance....

danb · Dec 13, 2018

DaemonAssassin said:
That is not the law, it is only MSP guidance....

true, but the way I look at it when it comes to trial, do you want 12 random Merrylanders debating caliper measurements and learning new terms like "gas block journal", or do you want to give them a clear statement "HBAR" on the paperwork, to give them reasonable doubt?

MSP guidance ("marked or marketed") may or may not be the law, but it is certainly sage advice that will save you a lot of legal fees.

ETA: as far as what the law is, it will be interpreted by an appellate court, probably after someone has been arrested and convicted. And I would not count on any MD court siding with us.

outrider58 · Dec 13, 2018

danb said:
true, but the way I look at it when it comes to trial, do you want 12 random Merrylanders debating caliper measurements and learning new terms like "gas block journal", or do you want to give them a clear statement "HBAR" on the paperwork, to give them reasonable doubt?

MSP guidance ("marked or marketed") may or may not be the law, but it is certainly sage advice that will save you a lot of legal fees.

ETA: as far as what the law is, it will be interpreted by an appellate court, probably after someone has been arrested and convicted. And I would not count on any MD court siding with us.

As per your ETA:

Funny that hasn't happened yet. At least not that I've heard of.

RJRjr · Dec 13, 2018

Del-ton has mid gas 16" barrels for 125. They come with a pinned on front sight though. Maybe you could order them from them without the front sight ? They are advertised as heavy. They are black also.

MDEXPAT · Dec 13, 2018

danb said:
...It has to be MARKED or MARKETED (advertised) as heavy barrel....

Well, not to get into an argument, but I've never seen a heavy barrel that wasn't marked as such, with only the twist rate stamped into the surface. I'm pretty sure they would mark their barrel accordingly.

I've sent Green Mountain an email asking them to verify whether or not the barrel is marked and am awaiting a response.

I guess I could have done that ahead of time.... guess I could have just bought it too I suppose. :innocent0

omegared24 · Dec 13, 2018

MDEXPAT said:
Well, not to get into an argument, but I've never seen a heavy barrel that wasn't marked as such, with only the twist rate stamped into the surface. I'm pretty sure they would mark their barrel accordingly.

I've sent Green Mountain an email asking them to verify whether or not the barrel is marked and am awaiting a response.

I guess I could have done that ahead of time.... guess I could have just bought it too I suppose.

Really? It took me a long time to find companies that had HBAR stamped on the barrel.

Please send me a list of companies that have HBAR stamped on barrels so you can make my job easier. Thanks in advance.

1ceman · Dec 13, 2018

Thank you guys for your help. It may also help others who are building find them easier.

danb · Dec 13, 2018

so what did you get?

DaemonAssassin · Dec 13, 2018

danb said:
true, but the way I look at it when it comes to trial, do you want 12 random Merrylanders debating caliper measurements and learning new terms like "gas block journal", or do you want to give them a clear statement "HBAR" on the paperwork, to give them reasonable doubt?

MSP guidance ("marked or marketed") may or may not be the law, but it is certainly sage advice that will save you a lot of legal fees.

ETA: as far as what the law is, it will be interpreted by an appellate court, probably after someone has been arrested and convicted. And I would not count on any MD court siding with us.

Show me where in the law it states it must be marketed or advertised as HBAR. I'll wait....

MDEXPAT · Dec 14, 2018

omegared24 said:
Really? It took me a long time to find companies that had HBAR stamped on the barrel.

Please send me a list of companies that have HBAR stamped on barrels so you can make my job easier. Thanks in advance.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-barrel-assembly-5-56-nato-1-7-h-bar-psa.html

https://www.apexgunparts.com/rifles/ar-15.html/colt-ar15-sp1-brrl-16-vg.html

This actually didn't take as long as it might seem. I was sidetracked by all the awesome HBAR sexiness.

I also couldn't list all the pics of Colt or Bushmaster HBAR-marked barrels that are out there for sale on other sites and forums. Not sure that would go over well potentially advertising someones sale. But they're there.

Mid-State Firearms got back to me, said they would laser-engrave "HBAR" on barrels. Just mention it in the "special instructions".

I have email inquiries out there w/ seven others and will forward their responses when they come in.

Remember the days when you had to search classifieds? Then shove a couple bucks in a SASE - that's "Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope" for the youngin's and don't get me started on "Stamp" and "Envelope" - and wait for what seemed like forever for a parts list to show up in the mail. By the time you found something you wanted listed and made the call, too late! Someone whose list arrived before yours beat you too it.

Yeah.... before email, the internet... Gunbroker, made things so much easier!

1time · Dec 14, 2018

DaemonAssassin said:
Show me where in the law it states it must be marketed or advertised as HBAR. I'll wait....

The law says that ar15’s are banned. It provides an exception for copies of the colt hbar. For many reasons, MSP guidance is a very liberal interpretation of the what a copy of a colt hbar is. I wouldn’t push my luck with their interpretation.

DaemonAssassin · Dec 14, 2018

1time said:
The law says that ar15’s are banned. It provides an exception for copies of the colt hbar. For many reasons, MSP guidance is a very liberal interpretation of the what a copy of a colt hbar is. I wouldn’t push my luck with their interpretation.

It is not a liberal interpretation, they are using "guidance" to create law, where none exists. HBAR is not defined by dimension anywhere in the law. For them to do this, creates the illusion of it being law, where it is not.

I actually found barrels marketed and marked as HBAR, that nobody would believe could be HBAR, but they fall under MSP "guidance" as legal. But then again, since there is no true industry definition as to what HBAR really is or definition in the law, MSP is placing the burden of proof on you. Reality is the burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defendant.

1ceman · Dec 14, 2018

Nothing yet. Been a busy week. My son just spent 2 days at Ft Meade, (MEPS) for the Army yesterday, and my wife and 13yr old both have been emotional. I had not had a chance to have them pick out his options.

omegared24 · Dec 14, 2018

MDEXPAT said:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-barrel-assembly-5-56-nato-1-7-h-bar-psa.html

https://www.apexgunparts.com/rifles/ar-15.html/colt-ar15-sp1-brrl-16-vg.html

This actually didn't take as long as it might seem. I was sidetracked by all the awesome HBAR sexiness.

I also couldn't list all the pics of Colt or Bushmaster HBAR-marked barrels that are out there for sale on other sites and forums. Not sure that would go over well potentially advertising someones sale. But they're there.

Mid-State Firearms got back to me, said they would laser-engrave "HBAR" on barrels. Just mention it in the "special instructions".

I have email inquiries out there w/ seven others and will forward their responses when they come in.

Remember the days when you had to search classifieds? Then shove a couple bucks in a SASE - that's "Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope" for the youngin's and don't get me started on "Stamp" and "Envelope" - and wait for what seemed like forever for a parts list to show up in the mail. By the time you found something you wanted listed and made the call, too late! Someone whose list arrived before yours beat you too it.

Yeah.... before email, the internet... Gunbroker, made things so much easier!

You only posted the two known options. Why don't you post the ones that sidetracked you? That PSA barrel has been sold out for almost 18 months. They just added it about a month ago. I've posted PSAs options in multiple threads.

Besides that, the Colt barrel is the only other known option.

I'll help you out, Hardened Arms will stamp it for you via special instructions as well. Unless they forget to do it and you spend $20 to send it back. Then never hear from them after 3 requests for your shipping refund.

The point here is stamped HBARs are not everywhere. You have to look hard to find them. Advertised as HBAR...sure.

danb · Dec 14, 2018

DaemonAssassin said:
It is not a liberal interpretation, they are using "guidance" to create law, where none exists. HBAR is not defined by dimension anywhere in the law. For them to do this, creates the illusion of it being law, where it is not.

I actually found barrels marketed and marked as HBAR, that nobody would believe could be HBAR, but they fall under MSP "guidance" as legal. But then again, since there is no true industry definition as to what HBAR really is or definition in the law, MSP is placing the burden of proof on you. Reality is the burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defendant.

The guidance is created in consultation with Frosh's office. Hope you are not dumb enough to believe they just make this up out of whole cloth without consulting state prosecutors.

You are free to argue to a judge and jury whatever you want, but the fact is, both will put enormous weight on MSP guidance.

outrider58 · Dec 14, 2018

RJRjr said:
Del-ton has mid gas 16" barrels for 125. They come with a pinned on front sight though. Maybe you could order them from them without the front sight ? They are advertised as heavy. They are black also.

I like this! OP can either unpin the FSBs and remove, or he can cut off the sight and keep the gas block portions.

MDEXPAT said:
Well, not to get into an argument, but I've never seen a heavy barrel that wasn't marked as such, with only the twist rate stamped into the surface. I'm pretty sure they would mark their barrel accordingly.

I've sent Green Mountain an email asking them to verify whether or not the barrel is marked and am awaiting a response.

I guess I could have done that ahead of time.... guess I could have just bought it too I suppose.

I have such a barrel.

MDEXPAT · Dec 14, 2018

omegared24 said:
You only posted the two known options. Why don't you post the ones that sidetracked you? That PSA barrel has been sold out for almost 18 months. They just added it about a month ago. I've posted PSAs options in multiple threads.

Besides that, the Colt barrel is the only other known option.

I'll help you out, Hardened Arms will stamp it for you via special instructions as well. Unless they forget to do it and you spend $20 to send it back. Then never hear from them after 3 requests for your shipping refund.

The point here is stamped HBARs are not everywhere. You have to look hard to find them. Advertised as HBAR...sure.

Yeah, 'cuz I have nothing better to do all day, right?

"Dad" was seeking help. I took it upon myself - as did other members - to help. If YOU don't like the options I came up with, than YOU can take it upon yourself to do better.

If something is "out of stock" then make a phone call! Clearly the fact that's its been available otherwise doesn't matter? Could get on a waiting list while continuing to search.

If YOU want to shoot down every option, that's not my problem. As stated, one manufacturer WILL MARK THE BARREL accordingly. Don't like their service? Well, not much I can do about that! Maybe "Dad" will have a better experience?

McGowen Barrels emailed back and stated, "They are not marked with the contour... " "This can be added to the engraving."

John Dowdy from Spike's Tactical states:.... "Barrels are rarely marked "HBAR" anymore."

First, as mentioned I rarely saw a barrel that wasn't so-marked (and that was back when I was actually looking, in the late-80's/ early-90's). Have things changed since then? Sure! But I haven't looked for a barrel since then and every time I saw heavy barreled uppers, I didn't stop to inspect for stamps as I just visually knew it was "heavy", so excuse my mistake as of late.

Second, John Dowdy goes on to state:... "We have a barrel that has been accepted in Maryland on builds we have done as well as just sales of the barrel. I was under the impression it was a "dimension" requirement rather than a "marking" requirement but I may be wrong."

Moriarti Armaments says:... "The heavy barrels do not have the markings on them...." "With Maryland, so far it is enough to have a visual confirmation of that heavy barrel profile and that's how we work with our clients from Maryland."

So far, some mark them accordingly and some do not. Some with experience say its visual/ dimensional.

Barbara Proctor at WMDGuns just emailed saying, "We do have a barrel that is marked "HBAR". It is an 18" barrel."

Barrier Defense simply replied, "Mine are not marked."

Still waiting on replies from others.....

omegared24 · Dec 14, 2018

MDEXPAT said:
Yeah, 'cuz I have nothing better to do all day, right?

"Dad" was seeking help. I took it upon myself - as did other members - to help. If YOU don't like the options I came up with, than YOU can take it upon yourself to do better.

If something is "out of stock" then make a phone call! Clearly the fact that's its been available otherwise doesn't matter? Could get on a waiting list while continuing to search.

If YOU want to shoot down every option, that's not my problem. As stated, one manufacturer WILL MARK THE BARREL accordingly. Don't like their service? Well, not much I can do about that! Maybe "Dad" will have a better experience?

McGowen Barrels emailed back and stated, "They are not marked with the contour... " "This can be added to the engraving."

John Dowdy from Spike's Tactical states:.... "Barrels are rarely marked "HBAR" anymore."

First, as mentioned I rarely saw a barrel that wasn't so-marked (and that was back when I was actually looking, in the late-80's/ early-90's). Have things changed since then? Sure! But I haven't looked for a barrel since then and every time I saw heavy barreled uppers, I didn't stop to inspect for stamps as I just visually knew it was "heavy", so excuse my mistake as of late.

Second, John Dowdy goes on to state:... "We have a barrel that has been accepted in Maryland on builds we have done as well as just sales of the barrel. I was under the impression it was a "dimension" requirement rather than a "marking" requirement but I may be wrong."

Moriarti Armaments says:... "The heavy barrels do not have the markings on them...." "With Maryland, so far it is enough to have a visual confirmation of that heavy barrel profile and that's how we work with our clients from Maryland."

So far, some mark them accordingly and some do not. Some with experience say its visual/ dimensional.

Barbara Proctor at WMDGuns just emailed saying, "We do have a barrel that is marked "HBAR". It is an 18" barrel."

Barrier Defense simply replied, "Mine are not marked."

Still waiting on replies from others.....

So basically the guy that has so much to do spent all this time typing when he could have easily said he was wrong. I guess you're not that scary busy after all.

I wasn't seeking help. I was simply calling you out on your BS.

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