Moving and driving into Maryland

Back to the OP...You didn't mention where you were moving to. Some areas are much better than others. I would recommend getting onto a waiting list for a nearby shooting club ASAP, they are often backlogged. Certainly my club in Deep Southern Maryland is.

4-203 does mention " Bon ified Collectors " . This is not defined in statute or case law . It is NOT synonymous with Designated Collector Letter .

OP...where are you headed for a duty station? Also...you’re fine for post-2013 non-compliant 5.56 ARs. Just separate the upper and lower.

Also, if I am not mistaken, I believe all magazines need to be empty while in transport as well.

Anyone know anything to the contrary, please advise.

chilipeppermaniac said:

Also, if I am not mistaken, I believe all magazines need to be empty while in transport as well.

Anyone know anything to the contrary, please advise.

Click to expand...

Show where that is required by FOPA or MD law.

chilipeppermaniac said:

Also, if I am not mistaken, I believe all magazines need to be empty while in transport as well.

Anyone know anything to the contrary, please advise.

Click to expand...

No they don’t.


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rbird7282 said:

No they don’t.


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Click to expand...

Thanks rbird and pinecone. I definitely was not wanting to be coming across as saying I knew this 100% That is why I said correct me if I had heard incorrectly. Thanks rbird etc.

This thread has potential to go viral LOL. It has it all. Only thing missing are HBARs. We have DC letters, loaded magazines, FOPA, banned rifles and handgun transport all wrapped up in one.

That comes to about 150 pages...

HAHA mac1-131, what about a little Killary, BLM and Ghislaine Maxwell thrown in?

OK Since I brought up the loaded vs empty magazine scenario, I will say the reason I posed the question is addressed in Urban Legend vs actual law vs potential misinterpretation by LEO's and even anti gun judges. The ultimate precautions we as law abiding gun owners practice is up to our level of risk we are willing to take. Despite what the law actually says and what the Maryland Communist Party says " law" is, how much do we want to push it? In my case, I definitely don't want to give away my rights, and certainly don't want some SJW screwing me over either.

I found this concern discussed here::::::::::::::: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...loaded-magazine-urban-legend-debunked.269357/

The OP at High Road thread says this, "I am not a lawyer, and nothing in this posting should be regarded as legal advice.

But I can read.

For years, some Maryland gunowners have been under the impression that under Maryland's strict law (Section 4-203 of the criminal code) governing the transporting of handguns (without a carry permit), a loaded magazine -- although physically separated from an unloaded gun -- would be treated as if it were a loaded weapon (i.e., would be treated as a violation of the anti-transportation law).

In my own efforts to understand and comply with all applicable firearms laws, I have repeatedly tried and failed to find any legal authority to back up the belief that a detached, loaded magazine could be regarded a loaded gun under Maryland state law.

I find nothing in state law to support such a doctrine. The applicable law merely says that a handgun can only be transported (without a carry permit) to and from certain locations (which are specified in the statute), and when so transported, must be "unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster."

In 2005, a firearms expert in the state attorney general's office told me that he knew of no court cases that even addressed the issue of detached magazines. "

" One poster on this website recently said he had once seen a letter from the Maryland attorney general's office, sent years ago to gunstores, asserting that loaded detached magazines and speedloaders would be treated as loaded guns, but current staff at the AG's office have found no record of any such letter. It is exists, somebody should scan it and post it.

I conclude that with respect to Maryland, the "loaded magazine doctrine" is merely an urban legend. Be aware, however, that it might be an urban legend that some law enforcement officers have heard and believed.

It appears that some of the confusion may have been generated by an entry on a list of "Frequently Asked Questions" that appeared for years on a website maintained by the Maryland Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services. That FAQ language went like this: "Can I legally transport my regulated firearm to the range? Answer: Yes, provided the regulated firearm is locked, in an enclosed case or enclosed holster with no ammunition accessible, to include loaded magazines."

That answer diverged from state Maryland law, which contains no requirements at all regarding ammunition (other than that the handgun must be "unloaded"), and no requirement that the "enclosed case or enclosed holster" must be "locked."

I note, however, that the language of that FAQ was very recently updated, and that the new version accurately reflects the actual language of the Maryland law. The new version, found here, reads as follows: "Can I legally transport my regulated firearm to the range? Yes, provided the handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster, and you are transporting the handgun to or from the places listed in section 4-203 of the Criminal Law Article of the Annotated Code of Maryland."

There is also another document, downloadable in PDF format from the Maryland State Police website, here, titled, "Maryland State Police Licensing Division Frequently Asked Questions." This document addresses the handgun transportation issue in somewhat different language, but I don't quarrel with it.

There is a federal law (18 USC 926A) that overrides state law for those who are transporting firearms through Maryland, which contains somewhat different requirements, but I don't need to get into that here. It is not possible to "violate" the federal law, because the federal law does not prohibit anything; it merely offers a shield that is sometimes useful to those who are transporting firearms through various jurisdictions."

In response, another poster says, "

urban legend = possible common law

I agree that the "loaded handgun magazine" thing is BS. However here are some things to keep in mind.

There is a DNR-affiliated law that talks about only transporting handguns and shotguns unloaded, or rifles unloaded to include the magazine.

MD courts are allowed (by the highest court's decisions) to "read into" the purpose behind a law to figure out how it applies to a given set of facts.

This concept both helps us and hurts us: the legality of carrying Spyderco-type pocket folders is based on courts using this concept to stretch the definition of "pen knife" under the MD code; This concept was also used to declare legal an owner's temporary "loan" of his/her handguns to someone else without the MSP paperwork; it was also used to shoot down a B-More city prosecutor's argument that a gun hidden in your own home was a concealed weapon violation.

In all of these cases, their rulings were not based on what is written in the black letter law, but what MD courts had "read" them into the law.

This COULD hurt us if an anti-gun-owner judge in MD gets to be the "decider" of this issue since there is no appellate guidance.

Example: Joe MD Gunowner busted with loaded mags while going to the range.

Judge sees handgun charge before him, and thinks: "

1) The MD legislature and MD AG declared that the MD handgun law's purpose is to stop shootings by gunowners

2) MD appeals court has said that the general non-gun weapons law is there "to protect weapons owners from themselves" (can get cite if someone asks)

3) The PGCO/MoCO/HoCo/MSP is here arguing that a handgun near a loaded magazine should be treated as "loaded" under the law because "it is just a split-second away from turning road rage into a bloodbath."

4) In keeping with this idea, the MD General Assembly was "obviously" so worried that even trained hunters can't control themselves if they spotted Bambi by the side of the road that it (already) requires rifle magazines to be unloaded during transport.

5) Even the redneck state of Georgia, full of good-old-boy gun nuts, requires people without a carry license to transport their unloaded handguns with unloaded handgun magazines.

6) So the question before me is. . . Is the PG/MoCO/HoCo/MSP interpretation of the handgun law "reasonable" as to effecting the MD handgun laws' purpose?

I would not want to bet on how that one would go."

And as Rabid Rabbit at stated in the Higroad thread "
I have an email from the MD AG office and they concur. There is no requirement concerning mags that are seperate from the firearm. I did have one MSP get a little testy about it though. He kept demanding that I justify why I needed to have loaded mags. He didn't like my answer that I prefer to spend my time shooting not loading mags. People's misunderstanding about this law is so bad that I was told that I could not have a unloaded mag in the gun"

Also, I have personally heard several people testify in Annapolis regarding their traveling through Md. Their scenario is one like this one obvious NON Marylander describes.

There is a federal law (18 USC 926A) that overrides state law for those who are transporting firearms through Maryland, which contains somewhat different requirements, but I don't need to get into that here. It is not possible to "violate" the federal law, because the federal law does not prohibit anything; it merely offers a shield that is sometimes useful to those who are transporting firearms through various jurisdictions.

HE says "I hope that is not to say that there is any safe passage traveling through MD. The state law guide that I use causes me to seek the shortest route north to PA by taking the short WV side, stop at the WV line, unload, and stash my gun in the trunk. I have never unloaded magazines that I recall.

I do actually have a trunk safe, but "locking" is not required to my knowledge.

After about a 20 mile stretch and crossing into PA, I pull over and retrieve my weapon. As far as traffic safety, the PA welcome center is about the first "safe" place to do that, but I would rather be armed when I pull in there, so I wind up opening my trunk with trucks passing right next to me at 70 mph and then waiting for an opening to get back out on the road. It's a challenge just to get out of the car and back in at a busy time, since the shoulder isn't much wider than the car. "

-------------------------------------------------------

I personally saw potential for trouble as folks go through Md via Wva to PA, or Pa to W VA,,,,,,,, and some MOMMIE sees him putting a gun in/getting a gun out of his trunk etc etc

chilipeppermaniac said:

In response, another poster says, "

urban legend = possible common law

I agree that the "loaded handgun magazine" thing is BS. However here are some things to keep in mind.

There is a DNR-affiliated law that talks about only transporting handguns and shotguns unloaded, or rifles unloaded to include the magazine.

MD courts are allowed (by the highest court's decisions) to "read into" the purpose behind a law to figure out how it applies to a given set of facts.

This concept both helps us and hurts us: the legality of carrying Spyderco-type pocket folders is based on courts using this concept to stretch the definition of "pen knife" under the MD code; This concept was also used to declare legal an owner's temporary "loan" of his/her handguns to someone else without the MSP paperwork; it was also used to shoot down a B-More city prosecutor's argument that a gun hidden in your own home was a concealed weapon violation.

In all of these cases, their rulings were not based on what is written in the black letter law, but what MD courts had "read" them into the law.

This COULD hurt us if an anti-gun-owner judge in MD gets to be the "decider" of this issue since there is no appellate guidance.

Example: Joe MD Gunowner busted with loaded mags while going to the range.

Click to expand...

Yet there is a written clarification of the law from the MDAG's office that states that it is perfectly legal to transport loaded magazines, even in the same case as with firearm, while legal transporting said firearm(s).

chilipeppermaniac said:

Judge sees handgun charge before him, and thinks: "

1) The MD legislature and MD AG declared that the MD handgun law's purpose is to stop shootings by gunowners

2) MD appeals court has said that the general non-gun weapons law is there "to protect weapons owners from themselves" (can get cite if someone asks)

3) The PGCO/MoCO/HoCo/MSP is here arguing that a handgun near a loaded magazine should be treated as "loaded" under the law because "it is just a split-second away from turning road rage into a bloodbath."

Click to expand...

This was old thought until the AG provided written guidance on the issue. This is no longer the case with those agencies.

chilipeppermaniac said:

4) In keeping with this idea, the MD General Assembly was "obviously" so worried that even trained hunters can't control themselves if they spotted Bambi by the side of the road that it (already) requires rifle magazines to be unloaded during transport.

5) Even the redneck state of Georgia, full of good-old-boy gun nuts, requires people without a carry license to transport their unloaded handguns with unloaded handgun magazines.

6) So the question before me is. . . Is the PG/MoCO/HoCo/MSP interpretation of the handgun law "reasonable" as to effecting the MD handgun laws' purpose?

I would not want to bet on how that one would go."

Click to expand...

The answer to #6 is a flat out "NO" based on what the MDAG has stated in writing.

Thank you dblas. It sure sucks we even have to take any of this into consideration.

I was just reading that thread about Frosch and NCIS for ammo,,,, and how it is for the safety of children, etc. How come Abortion is still legal if that is the case.
Even is Baltimore has 300 murders a year, Not all by gun. I am willing to bet there are 100 times that many babies murdered and the perps are lauded at the service they provide.

1390 abortions performed in the US already today and it is only 2 PM EASTERN TIME. I bet not one firearm, or round of ammo was used to do so either.

Abortion Incidence

•Approximately 862,320 abortions occurred in the United States in 2017. The resulting abortion rate of 13.5 abortions per 1,000 women of reproductive age (15–44) represents an 8% decrease from the 2014 rate of 14.6.[1]

•In 2017, 29,800 abortions were provided in Maryland, though not all abortions that occurred in Maryland were provided to state residents: Some patients may have traveled from other states, and some Maryland residents may have traveled to another state for an abortion. There was a a 7% increase in the abortion rate in Maryland between 2014 and 2017, from 23.4 to 25.0 abortions per 1,000 women of reproductive age. Abortions in Maryland represent 3.5% of all abortions in the United States.[1]

Sorry for a partial hijack with the abortion info, but I can never help myself when our government claims to be acting in our behalf for safety reasons and yet endorses, funds, commits murder for profit every day. Then the next breath wants to take away our gun rights to protect ourselves from not getting murdered ourselves.

chilipeppermaniac said:

Thank you dblas. It sure sucks we even have to take any of this into consideration.

I was just reading that thread about Frosch and NCIS for ammo,,,, and how it is for the safety of children, etc. How come Abortion is still legal if that is the case.
Even is Baltimore has 300 murders a year, Not all by gun. I am willing to bet there are 100 times that many babies murdered and the perps are lauded at the service they provide.

1390 abortions performed in the US already today and it is only 2 PM EASTERN TIME. I bet not one firearm, or round of ammo was used to do so either.

Abortion Incidence

•Approximately 862,320 abortions occurred in the United States in 2017. The resulting abortion rate of 13.5 abortions per 1,000 women of reproductive age (15–44) represents an 8% decrease from the 2014 rate of 14.6.[1]

•In 2017, 29,800 abortions were provided in Maryland, though not all abortions that occurred in Maryland were provided to state residents: Some patients may have traveled from other states, and some Maryland residents may have traveled to another state for an abortion. There was a a 7% increase in the abortion rate in Maryland between 2014 and 2017, from 23.4 to 25.0 abortions per 1,000 women of reproductive age. Abortions in Maryland represent 3.5% of all abortions in the United States.[1]

Click to expand...

That was from September of 2019, ans we see what happened with that at the federal and state level.....absolutely nothing.