namrelio
Ultimate Member
It's a small inconvenience to put up with for all the lives it's gonna save. 
Well there go the pistol braces.
- Thread starter IDFInfantry
- Start date
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I'll float an idea for the sake of discussion.
Can you imagine the ATF trying to handle a flood of millions of tax free applications? The entire agency employs less than 6,000 people.
My bet is on a money grab scheme with the incoming Biden administration. They'll be able to play their tiny violin, beg for more money and [human] resources in order to accelerate the hard working of adjudicating lawful citizens. Whatever happens, there's still a high probability the ATF will botch it.
Muleskinner
Ultimate Member
I read an article when the first SDtsctical brace was deemed illegal on the honey badger. It estimated well over 1 million braces have been sold industry wide. That would add all of those people to the ever growing registry if they all complied..it's unlikely many will though.
thats going to make it hard for PCC, when you can't even SBR certain guns just bc of the length...
From page 7-8 of the DOJ draft.
ATF has observed that the development and production of firearms with arm braces has become more prevalent in the firearms industry and, relatedly, that requests for classifications for this kind of firearm design have also increased. Therefore, ATF is publishing this notice to aid the firearms industry and public in understanding the objective design features that FATD considers when evaluating firearm samples submitted with a stabilizing brace or similar attachment.
The objective design features ATF considers in determining whether a weapon with an attached “stabilizing brace” has been “designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder” include, but are not limited to:
Type and Caliber. The type and caliber of firearm to which the stabilizing brace or similar item is installed. A large caliber firearm that is impractical to fire with one hand because of recoil or other factors, even with an arm brace, is likely to be considered a rifle or shotgun.
Weight and Length. The weight and length of the firearm used with the stabilizing brace. A firearm that is so heavy that it is impractical to fire or aim with one hand, or so long that it is difficult to balance the firearm to fire with one hand, is likely to be considered a rifle or shotgun.
Length of Pull. The “length of pull” refers to the distance from the trigger to the point at which a stock meets the shoulder. This is a measurement for rifles and shotguns used to accommodate shooters of different sizes. Because an arm brace need only reach the forearm, the distance between the trigger and the back of the brace is generally expected to be shorter than the distance between the trigger and the back of a stock on a weapon designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder. This measurement is not necessarily determinative of the intent of the manufacturer but is used in making an evaluation of the firearm. If a brace is of a length that makes it impractical to attach to the shooter’s wrist or forearm, then that may demonstrate that it is not designed as brace but rather for shoulder fire.
Attachment Method. The method of attachment of the stabilizing brace, to include modified stock attachments, extended receiver extensions, and the use of spacers. These items extend the distance between the trigger and the part of the
7
Please note that this draft is subject to formatting and other changes by the Federal Register prior to publication.
AS SUBMITTED
UNOFFICIAL DRAFT
weapon that contacts the shooter, whether it is a stock or stabilizing brace. Use of these items indicates that the weapon is designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder because they extend a stabilizing brace beyond a point that is useful for something other than shoulder support.
Stabilizing Brace Design Features. The objective design features of the attached stabilizing brace itself are relevant to the classification of the assembled weapon, and include:
o The comparative function of the attachment when utilized as a stabilizing brace compared to its alternate use as a shouldering device;
o The design of the stabilizing brace compared to known shoulder stock designs;
o The amount of rear contact surface area of the stabilizing brace that can be used in shouldering the weapon as compared to the surface area necessary for use as a stabilizing brace;
o The material used to make the attachment that indicates whether the brace is designed and intended to be pressed against the shoulder for support, or actually used on the arm;
o Any shared or interchangeable parts with known shoulder stocks; and
o Any other feature of the brace that improves the weapon’s effectiveness
from the shoulder-firing position without providing a corresponding benefit to the effectiveness of the stability and support provided by the brace’s use on the arm.
Aim Point. Appropriate aim point when utilizing the attachment as a stabilizing brace. If the aim point when using the arm brace attachment results in an upward or downward trajectory that could not accurately hit a target, this may indicate the attachment was not designed as a stabilizing brace.
Secondary Grip. The presence of a secondary grip may indicate that the weapon is not a “pistol” because it is not designed to be held and fired by one hand.
Sights and Scopes. Incorporation of sights or scopes that possess eye relief incompatible with one-handed firing may indicate that the weapon is not a “pistol” because they are designed to be used from a shoulder-fire position and are incompatible for the single-handed shooting that arm braces are designed and intended.
Peripheral Accessories. Installation of peripheral accessories commonly found on rifles or shotguns that may indicate that the firearm is not designed and intended to be held and fired with one hand. This includes, but is not limited to, the installation of bipods/monopods that improve the accuracy of heavy weapons designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder; or the inclusion of a magazine or drum that accepts so many cartridges that it increases the overall weight of the firearm to a degree that it is impractical to fire the weapon with one hand even with the assistance of a stabilizing brace.
8
Please note that this draft is subject to formatting and other changes by the Federal Register prior to publication.
ATF has observed that the development and production of firearms with arm braces has become more prevalent in the firearms industry and, relatedly, that requests for classifications for this kind of firearm design have also increased. Therefore, ATF is publishing this notice to aid the firearms industry and public in understanding the objective design features that FATD considers when evaluating firearm samples submitted with a stabilizing brace or similar attachment.
The objective design features ATF considers in determining whether a weapon with an attached “stabilizing brace” has been “designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder” include, but are not limited to:
Type and Caliber. The type and caliber of firearm to which the stabilizing brace or similar item is installed. A large caliber firearm that is impractical to fire with one hand because of recoil or other factors, even with an arm brace, is likely to be considered a rifle or shotgun.
Weight and Length. The weight and length of the firearm used with the stabilizing brace. A firearm that is so heavy that it is impractical to fire or aim with one hand, or so long that it is difficult to balance the firearm to fire with one hand, is likely to be considered a rifle or shotgun.
Length of Pull. The “length of pull” refers to the distance from the trigger to the point at which a stock meets the shoulder. This is a measurement for rifles and shotguns used to accommodate shooters of different sizes. Because an arm brace need only reach the forearm, the distance between the trigger and the back of the brace is generally expected to be shorter than the distance between the trigger and the back of a stock on a weapon designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder. This measurement is not necessarily determinative of the intent of the manufacturer but is used in making an evaluation of the firearm. If a brace is of a length that makes it impractical to attach to the shooter’s wrist or forearm, then that may demonstrate that it is not designed as brace but rather for shoulder fire.
Attachment Method. The method of attachment of the stabilizing brace, to include modified stock attachments, extended receiver extensions, and the use of spacers. These items extend the distance between the trigger and the part of the
7
Please note that this draft is subject to formatting and other changes by the Federal Register prior to publication.
AS SUBMITTED
UNOFFICIAL DRAFT
weapon that contacts the shooter, whether it is a stock or stabilizing brace. Use of these items indicates that the weapon is designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder because they extend a stabilizing brace beyond a point that is useful for something other than shoulder support.
Stabilizing Brace Design Features. The objective design features of the attached stabilizing brace itself are relevant to the classification of the assembled weapon, and include:
o The comparative function of the attachment when utilized as a stabilizing brace compared to its alternate use as a shouldering device;
o The design of the stabilizing brace compared to known shoulder stock designs;
o The amount of rear contact surface area of the stabilizing brace that can be used in shouldering the weapon as compared to the surface area necessary for use as a stabilizing brace;
o The material used to make the attachment that indicates whether the brace is designed and intended to be pressed against the shoulder for support, or actually used on the arm;
o Any shared or interchangeable parts with known shoulder stocks; and
o Any other feature of the brace that improves the weapon’s effectiveness
from the shoulder-firing position without providing a corresponding benefit to the effectiveness of the stability and support provided by the brace’s use on the arm.
Aim Point. Appropriate aim point when utilizing the attachment as a stabilizing brace. If the aim point when using the arm brace attachment results in an upward or downward trajectory that could not accurately hit a target, this may indicate the attachment was not designed as a stabilizing brace.
Secondary Grip. The presence of a secondary grip may indicate that the weapon is not a “pistol” because it is not designed to be held and fired by one hand.
Sights and Scopes. Incorporation of sights or scopes that possess eye relief incompatible with one-handed firing may indicate that the weapon is not a “pistol” because they are designed to be used from a shoulder-fire position and are incompatible for the single-handed shooting that arm braces are designed and intended.
Peripheral Accessories. Installation of peripheral accessories commonly found on rifles or shotguns that may indicate that the firearm is not designed and intended to be held and fired with one hand. This includes, but is not limited to, the installation of bipods/monopods that improve the accuracy of heavy weapons designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder; or the inclusion of a magazine or drum that accepts so many cartridges that it increases the overall weight of the firearm to a degree that it is impractical to fire the weapon with one hand even with the assistance of a stabilizing brace.
8
Please note that this draft is subject to formatting and other changes by the Federal Register prior to publication.
Sure, I can see that. But for people that already have an NFA item, you're not really losing anything by adding another without the tax or the wait.
I'm not a big brace fan, but if the ATF is giving out free SBR's, I might go grab one
SB tactical have stated that the number is closer to 5 million.
Muleskinner
Ultimate Member
I've been waiting for the first person to do that..
Something like " you knew this was going to happen. That "brace" is nothing more than a non telescoping stock" just like the guy here who hates 80 percent guns because the shed a bad light on legitimate gun owners..
Muleskinner
Ultimate Member
Maybe that was the number. I'm sitting here sipping single malt watching the world freeze..I'm not in any state to remember what I read weeks ago.
Not busting balls, just posting for information purposes.
Oh3
Member
So how would this work for an 80% lower pistol? I thought SBRs needed serials.
Asking for a friend
Asking for a friend
Oh3
Member
Then I guess my friend will end up moving parts around and getting a serialized lower for the pistol. I, I mean my friend still wants a 20” AR in 5.56 so the other lower is still used.
danimalw
Ultimate Member
All of this focus on shooting one handed. Soooo are they also saying shooting any pistol (glock, 1911...) With 2 hands is not allowed?!? I know they aren't but that could be a point to argue.
crazycarl7
Active Member
- Feb 21, 2009
- 218
What about in a .300 BO?
Kicken Wing
Snakes and Sparklers
Thanks for the link. I get all of FPC emails but somehow I missed this one. That line in the link about getting a free SBR sounds like a rope-a-dope trick to me. Get a free SBR.... so that now we know who you are and we can TAKE IT LATER.
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