I'm contemplating moving away from 9mm

trickg · Sep 29, 2016

jimbobborg said:
If things have gone so far downhill that I have to worry about getting hit multiple times with a .308 or get sniped with a .338, I'm going to be concealed carrying an AR pistol. That's when it makes sense to carry 45+ rounds of ammunition on you. But at that point, the only reason I'd be leaving my home is to get supplies.

I have to apologize - I'm having some fun and making light of this thread, just a wee little bit.

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

I like the academic exercise, but the reality is that although the 10 mm is definitely a much more powerful round, if you do your part behind the gun and put rounds where they are supposed to go, it's likely not going to matter what you are shooting as long as it's not under-powered or too small.

jimbobborg · Sep 29, 2016

trickg said:
I have to apologize - I'm having some fun and making light of this thread, just a wee little bit.

I figured as much :lol2:

trickg said:
I like the academic exercise, but the reality is that although the 10 mm is definitely a much more powerful round, if you do your part behind the gun and put rounds where they are supposed to go, it's likely not going to matter what you are shooting as long as it's not under-powered or too small.

Sometimes, I'm a bit too academic, but, having read enough stories and having been beaten and robbed twice, I'd rather comfortably carry something smaller with a big bite versus sometimes carrying a heavy, uncomfortable something with a smaller bite.

trickg · Sep 29, 2016

jimbobborg said:
Sometimes, I'm a bit too academic, but, having read enough stories and having been beaten and robbed twice, I'd rather comfortably carry something smaller with a big bite versus sometimes carrying a heavy, uncomfortable something with a smaller bite.

I mean, there's no doubt that the 10 mm is superior to all three of the main pistol calibers, but again I submit that any and all between 9 mm, .40, .45 and 10 mm are going to get the job done as long as you put the shots where you intend to.

alucard0822 · Sep 29, 2016

I hate firing 357 in snubbys, even 38+P hurts, and none chrono much better from my J-frame than hot 9+p out of a similarly small 3" pistol. 10mm is awesome, love mine, but choices are hard to come by. One caliber to consider is 45+p or 45 super, most modern 45 pistols will handle it with a heavier recoil and mag spring, performance is around 10mm levels, but larger diameter, heavier bullets, lower pressure, and more efficient in short barrels. Underwood 45 Super works wonderfully out of my XDs and G30SF. I went the opposite way, I just carry small 9s and 40s with a spare mag, and relegated my more exotic stuff to range toys only.

MikeTF · Sep 29, 2016

trickg said:
I mean, there's no doubt that the 10 mm is superior to all three of the main pistol calibers, but again I submit that any and all between 9 mm, .40, .45 and 10 mm are going to get the job done as long as you put the shots where you intend to.

I carry a NAA 22lr revolver for backup (i.e. up close and personal). Would I be better off just punching them in the throat?

Biggfoot44 · Sep 29, 2016

Maybe, only semi-joking.

I'd much rather have a nice .25acp for the better first shot hits and rapid follow ups , in a pkg stoll very small.

StantonCree · Sep 29, 2016

Biggfoot44 said:
Maybe, only semi-joking.

I'd much rather have a nice .25acp for the better first shot hits and rapid follow ups , in a pkg stoll very small.

If the seecamp 32 wasn't so expensive for something I don't feel like buying a lot of ammo for I would 100% own and carry one. I fight wi buying one all the time!

mopar92 · Sep 29, 2016

If I was going to carry a revolver, I'd only consider carrying one that's been cut (machined) for moonclips. Especially on a snubby .38/.357 extraction can be a serious issue as its very easy under stress to pump the ejector rod and have a casing slip under the star. Moonclips help alleviate that issue as it ejects all 6 at once and its damn near impossible not to have smooth extraction.

Boom Boom · Sep 29, 2016

22LR. Definitely 22LR. Somebody said so in a thread somewhere.

photoracer · Sep 29, 2016

If you like 38 Super or its equal 9x23mm you can just carry .357 Sig instead. Although because the case is .40 it carries less rounds per mag than say 9mm, but one by 2-3 rounds. One of the guns I carry in WV is my HK USP Compact in 357 Sig. 10 and 12 rd mags (they carry 12 and 15 respectively of 9mm) . I like the caliber and I started shooting IDPA with it when I got it. But since then I bought .40 and 9mm barrels for it and its now my SHTF pistol. Now I use 9mm for IDPA and .357 Sig for carry. Almost nothing better than 125g Speer Gold Dots at 1352 FPS (slightly less as the barrel is 3.59"). On the otherhand my 1911 Dan Wesson 9mm also came with the stuff to shoot 9x23mm. That is Win 124g Silvertips at 1450 FPS (or a little less as its only a 4.5" barrel), same as 38 Super.
But what really counts is not how powerful your rounds are but how well you can put them in center of mass like clockwork.

Cold Steel · Oct 1, 2016

Well, you have to go with what you're comfortable with. I see no downsides to the hot 9mm JHPs, but a lot of this, I think, has more to do with what's between our ears. I'm comfortable with a Beretta 70S .22LR most of the time. The .40 S&W isn't a round I'm familiar with and I don't own any, but I've spoken to a few federal agents who, after looking forward to the caliber, ended up being disappointed in it. There was a shooting somewhere in the midwest where a Treasury agent shot a woman point blank in the chest with his new .40 pistol. He said she just kept coming as if she'd not been shot. She eventually went down, but survived, and that lost the round some respect and some agents went back to the 9mm.

I'm not saying they were justified. They were expecting the gun to be a super-caliber like the 125gr JHP .357 Magnum. One shot and the person evaporates in a misty haze! But seriously, that failure early on was a huge disappointment to many. In the end, you have to be at peace with what you carry.

3paul10 · Oct 1, 2016

jimbobborg said:
Power to weight ratio is why I'm looking at moving to a 10mm 1911 and a snubbie .357. I have a carry permit from the Commonwealth, so I can carry up to the DC and Maryland state lines I do compete, which is why the shorter calibers are going to be relegated to competitions only. I have 1500 rounds of 10mm and 1200 rounds of .38 Special and 700 rounds of .357 Magnum. I'm also a reloader.

I've been carrying a Colt Cobra since I got it on Monday. Even with six rounds of +P 125gr JHPs, it's lighter than the 9mm subcompact I've been carrying. Two speedloaders of the same ammunition weigh about the same as the one extra mag of the 9mm. Short of a Walking Dead scenario, I've got enough to get to my vehicle with what's in the revolver and the two speed loaders. Don't get me wrong, more capacity is usually better, but I don't want to carry the extra weight.

I've owned and shot 10mm since 1990, I have brass and ammunition and factory rounds. I like the 180 and 200 gr loads I have and now that Sig is entering the mix, I've got more choices for ammunition now than has been since the early 90s.

I really should have mentioned earlier, due to the internal blood filter I have in my abdomen, it's very painful for me to sit with my belt cinched enough to hold a full sized pistol up and be able to sit down while driving. Assuming I can get another 10mm 1911 soon, I'll be carrying that in a shoulder holster with one spare mag when it gets colder.

Just FYI: Shooting +Ps in an aluminum frame Colt Cobra will cause the frame to crack...my friend just cracked his...it cracked right in the pocket for the extractor rod, couldn't even get the cylinder to open. Colt says there is nothing that can be done, just a paperweight now....be ware...

jimbobborg · Oct 1, 2016

3paul10 said:
Just FYI: Shooting +Ps in an aluminum frame Colt Cobra will cause the frame to crack...my friend just cracked his...it cracked right in the pocket for the extractor rod, couldn't even get the cylinder to open. Colt says there is nothing that can be done, just a paperweight now....be ware...

Cobras are rated for 1000 rounds of +P before being checked by a smith for frame stretch. I'm not running thousands of rounds through this revolver. The +P is for carry, standard pressure is for practice. Plus I got another revolver with a similar grip, so I can practice with that.

redeemed.man · Oct 1, 2016

mpdc4511 said:
If the seecamp 32 wasn't so expensive for something I don't feel like buying a lot of ammo for I would 100% own and carry one. I fight wi buying one all the time!

It is a well built good looking piece of equipment. I just can't do .32

Chaim · Oct 5, 2016

At least on the defensive pistol side. Same with the .40 S&W and .45 ACP. I think all three of these calibers will be relegated to competition only use.

What makes you think that is coming any time soon? Also, if we did go the way of some countries and ban "service calibers", .38spl and .357mag have historically been police calibers so I figure there is a good chance those would be banned too.

If it happened, I think I'd use my S&W 625MG in .45LC for my primary home defense gun, and try harder to find a Taurus 431 or L-frame S&W .44spl for carry (when in a state that honors my UT non-res CCW). I'd probably become so tempted that I couldn't resist buying a Beretta 84 or 86 in nickel as well.

Now, if you are actually becoming uncomfortable with 9mm and are looking for an excuse to change, that is understandable. We all have to constantly re-examine what compromises we find acceptable for our defensive guns. I recently started to think I wanted to move away from 9mm (I've long trusted it during the summer, but was uncomfortable with a round the relied on expansion for its effectiveness during the winter when people wear heavy clothing that can clog a hollow point). I also decided I wanted more capacity in my carry guns at about the same time, so I was thinking a Glock 23 sized gun (and the Glock itself was high on my list). Though, when I was researching ammo, I decided that there are several loads of 9mm that are consistent enough even with the denim test that I was comfortable with it even during the winter, 9mm means more capacity than .40, and I've long wanted a CZ PCR (or as an alternate, a P01) and I ended up buying a CZ P01 instead of a mid-sized .40.

Of course, if you want to go to 10mm and .357mag, there is nothing wrong with those choices and there are some guns that would make terrific carry guns in those calibers. Once it has enough range time, one of my carry guns will be a 3" Rossi 461 I bought some months ago, and I can possibly see a Glock 20 or 29 in my future.

jimbobborg · Oct 6, 2016

Chaim said:
What makes you think that is coming any time soon?

I didn't say what you are implying here. I'm saying I am relegating them to shooting sports only.

Chaim said:
Now, if you are actually becoming uncomfortable with 9mm and are looking for an excuse to change, that is understandable.

Not uncomfortable with the caliber, just not wanting to carry a Wonder 9 and extra magazines on me. With the full size, and even compact, double-stack pistols, it requires me to wear an IWB holster for concealment. I have to leave my coat/jacket unzipped to be able to access the pistol quickly. I can carry any of my snubby revolvers in my coat pocket, with speed loaders in the other pocket, and not raise an eyebrow. When it's cold out, I'll have my hands in my jacket pocket anyway.

Chaim said:
Of course, if you want to go to 10mm and .357mag, there is nothing wrong with those choices and there are some guns that would make terrific carry guns in those calibers.

To clarify, the 10mm (1911) and the .357s (4" and 6" barreled) will be carried in a shoulder holster, for when I'm going to be doing a lot of driving. With my current .38s and a possible snubby .357, they are for pocket carry, when I'm about town doing stuff.

jimbobborg · Oct 7, 2016

Put a bid in on another revolver, I'm hoping no one bids against me. If this comes in, the Model 10 will go to the chop shop.

Klunatic · Oct 7, 2016

Before you jump check out this thread https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=200417

Pretty interesting discussion on the wounds caused by various calibers

dreadpirate · Oct 13, 2016

Boom Boom said:
22LR. Definitely 22LR. Somebody said so in a thread somewhere.

Until you read the "Ask me anything about handgun ammo terminal performance" thread.

Traveler · Oct 14, 2016

I got a Glock 21, and I am very happy with it. You will never look cool to your buddies with a Glock, but my 21 and 17 shoot spot on, and will get the job done. A 9mm needs a modern hollow point. The 45 doesn't care. Real men don't need fashion rounds to put the bad guy down. Heck, if they made a semi auto .357 magnum with 13 rounds, I would probably buy it.

I'm contemplating moving away from 9mm

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