80 Percent lower builds

webb297 · Dec 24, 2013

armed ferret said:
What the hell is an "AK-47 lower"?

I think he is referring to something like this:

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/AK47-80-Blank-Receiver-16p362.htm

mopar92 · Dec 24, 2013

It is legal to make ANY non-banned firearm in MD post 10/1. IF you wanted to make a .50 BMG rifle that's not on the banned list go right ahead.
Ergo, HBARs and pistols are good to go.

DaemonAssassin · Dec 24, 2013

mopar92 said:
It is legal to make ANY non-banned firearm in MD post 10/1. IF you wanted to make a .50 BMG rifle that's not on the banned list go right ahead.
Ergo, HBARs and pistols are good to go.

There is a definitive answer to your question OP.

As for if MSP/LEO will give you any grief over a rifle with no serial, just show them the ATF/Federal regs that say it is legal to build, own, and possess as long as it is in HBAR or pistol config.

Weber · Dec 24, 2013

There is a lot of mis-information in this thread.

I bet the people who are saying it is illegal, have not done any research to wether that is true or not, and just posting their opinion or something they read on the Internet.

Prior to Oct 1st you were able to manufacture any legal firearm, that you were able to legally own, for your personal use. It was however, "illegal" to manufacture "illegal" firearms.

Since Oct 1st, none of that has changed. The list of legal firearms has, but there are still legal options to manufacture from an 80% ar lower.

NateIU10 · Dec 24, 2013

Weber said:
There is a lot of mis-information in this thread.

I bet the people who are saying it is illegal, have not done any research to wether that is true or not, and just posting their opinion or something they read on the Internet.

Prior to Oct 1st you were able to manufacture any legal firearm, that you were able to legally own, for your personal use. It was however, "illegal" to manufacture "illegal" firearms.

Since Oct 1st, none of that has changed. The list of legal firearms has, but there are still legal options to manufacture from an 80% ar lower.

Except prior to 10/1, you would not be in possession of a banned firearm if you made an 80% lower into an M4. The issue here is that MSP has taken the position that an AR15 lower receiver is, itself, an assault long gun, and therefore banned. So, using that definition, the second you possess an AR15 lower in MD, you possess an illegal Assault Long Gun. It would not matter if you immediately put an HBAR upper on the lower, there would be a moment in time in which you possessed a banned firearm in MD.

I disagree with MSP's interpretation completely, but that's what it is right now. Now, if you milled an 80% lower outside of the state (where that would be legal) and transport it back into MD as an HBAR, you have not violated the law. You have never possessed, nor transported into the state, a banned Assault Long Gun.

MEGARMS · Dec 24, 2013

FoxFirearms said:
Stay away from 80% lowers. The worst thing about them is no serial number. Get caught with it and I GUARANTEE you will be made an example of.

Um, don't you mean the best thing about them is they don't have a serial number?

Weber · Dec 24, 2013

NateIU10 said:
Except prior to 10/1, you would not be in possession of a banned firearm if you made an 80% lower into an M4. The issue here is that MSP has taken the position that an AR15 lower receiver is, itself, an assault long gun, and therefore banned. So, using that definition, the second you possess an AR15 lower in MD, you possess an illegal Assault Long Gun. It would not matter if you immediately put an HBAR upper on the lower, there would be a moment in time in which you possessed a banned firearm in MD.

I disagree with MSP's interpretation completely, but that's what it is right now. Now, if you milled an 80% lower outside of the state (where that would be legal) and transport it back into MD, you have not violated the law. You have never possessed, nor transported into the state, a banned Assault Long Gun.

It's great that your post has a disclaimer, lol...

You should make some phone calls, you would be surprised at the response you get.

armed ferret · Dec 24, 2013

webb297 said:
I think he is referring to something like this:

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/AK47-80-Blank-Receiver-16p362.htm

That's not a "lower". It's a receiver.

Seems to me yet another internet ninja has decided ak's are just like ar's and the parts are interchangeable.

No.

AKs do not have "lowers". That implies there is an "upper" to accompany. Care to show a photo of an AK "upper"?

DaemonAssassin · Dec 24, 2013

armed ferret said:
That's not a "lower". It's a receiver.

Seems to me yet another internet ninja has decided ak's are just like ar's and the parts are interchangeable.

No.

AKs do not have "lowers". That implies there is an "upper" to accompany. Care to show a photo of an AK "upper"?

The barrel? I'm kidding!

armed ferret · Dec 24, 2013

Sorry. Just really sick of people assuming the two are equal in operation and nomenclature...and when corrected, proceeding to grab the pickaxe and shovel and dig dig dig....

RileysDad · Dec 25, 2013

I can safely say that I'm more confused now than when I entered this thread.

Ab_Normal · Dec 25, 2013

NateIU10 said:
Except prior to 10/1, you would not be in possession of a banned firearm if you made an 80% lower into an M4. The issue here is that MSP has taken the position that an AR15 lower receiver is, itself, an assault long gun, and therefore banned. So, using that definition, the second you possess an AR15 lower in MD, you possess an illegal Assault Long Gun. It would not matter if you immediately put an HBAR upper on the lower, there would be a moment in time in which you possessed a banned firearm in MD.

I disagree with MSP's interpretation completely, but that's what it is right now. Now, if you milled an 80% lower outside of the state (where that would be legal) and transport it back into MD, you have not violated the law. You have never possessed, nor transported into the state, a banned Assault Long Gun.

If you finished an 80% Colt Sporter HBAR lower then it would be legal all the way around.

Pinecone · Dec 25, 2013

armed ferret said:
That's not a "lower". It's a receiver.

Seems to me yet another internet ninja has decided ak's are just like ar's and the parts are interchangeable.

No.

AKs do not have "lowers". That implies there is an "upper" to accompany. Care to show a photo of an AK "upper"?

Also, some people do not understand that not all firearms with an upper and lower, that the lower is not always the serial numbered part (thus not the "firearm").

For the FAL, the UPPER receiver is the controlled part.

Ab_Normal · Dec 25, 2013

Pinecone said:
Also, some people do not understand that not all firearms with an upper and lower, that the lower is not always the serial numbered part (thus not the "firearm").

For the FAL, the UPPER receiver is the controlled part.

And per Doug Gansler the receiver is just one of the many criteria in determining whether or not a firearm is a copy of firearms on the banned (formerly regulated) assault long gun list. If it is the only feature (stripped receiver) then how can they project that it will in fact become a banned item?

NateIU10 · Dec 25, 2013

Weber said:
It's great that your post has a disclaimer, lol...

You should make some phone calls, you would be surprised at the response you get.

Thanks, all of my posts include my signature. You will notice that a good amount of the attorneys on here have similar language in their signatures.

Who would you like me to call, and about what, exactly? I have spoken with the MSP and AG's office on the issue, as well as done other research, for my work. The MSP treats a stripped AR15 lower as a copy of an assault long gun. That is why they were regulated before 10/1, and are considered banned now. It makes no sense, and I am currently writing an article about it, but finishing or possessing a completed 80% lower in MD could place you in a position of possessing an illegal Assault Weapon (as MSP is interpreting the law).

Ab_Normal said:
If you finished an 80% Colt Sporter HBAR lower then it would be legal all the way around.

Sure, except for the fact that the way MSP defines an HBAR is by barrel profile. With how they have been interpreting the law, I don't see a way to do that within the state and not at least expose yourself to possible prosecution.

jcbvh · Dec 25, 2013

I dont know why this topic keeps coming up.

If you complete a 80% lower to 100% even here in Louisiana and dont put a serial number on it (any number), your asking for some trouble or at the very minimum having to spend alot of time educating a police officer.

Putting a number on it, isnt registering it.

I would never take a non serial numbered 100% lower out in public no matter what state I live in.

Be smart guys, at the very least have ALL documentation with you stating you can build one for yourself, and put a number on it...any number.

Most police officers dont know the gun laws at this level of detail, hell most of us dont.

These 80-100% lowers serve a few major purposes, and taking one out to the range showing joe public screaming, "my rights, my rights" isnt one of them.

my .02

aquaman · Dec 25, 2013

If I were living in MD and wanted to complete an 80% lower I would make the serial number my initials and a pre-oct 1 date.

that is the beauty of buying 80% kits and paying by mail with a money order.

Ab_Normal · Dec 25, 2013

NateIU10 said:
Sure, except for the fact that the way MSP defines an HBAR is by barrel profile. With how they have been interpreting the law, I don't see a way to do that within the state and not at least expose yourself to possible prosecution.

I have not seen where they have defined what an HBAR profile barrel is. Do you have any info on that? I have also heard that they are only exempting the Colt brand and not others. Which is accurate?

armed ferret · Dec 25, 2013

aquaman said:
If I were living in MD and wanted to complete an 80% lower I would make the serial number my initials and a pre-oct 1 date.

that is the beauty of buying 80% kits and paying by mail with a money order.

...or cash out of state.

Weber · Dec 25, 2013

NateIU10 said:
Thanks, all of my posts include my signature. You will notice that a good amount of the attorneys on here have similar language in their signatures.

Who would you like me to call, and about what, exactly?

Maybe they will teach you whom to call for answers in your 5th year of school...

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