80 Percent lower builds

ar15dave · Dec 23, 2013

I am trying to get clarity about 80% builds since the new law kicked in.

80% AR or AK 47 lowers can be purchased. What are the rules of finishing the rifles? I see a lot of folks posting post Oct 1 that they have bought and built out 80% lowers into functioning guns.

Is that legal? Legal for AK47 and AR15?

Just trying to get a better understanding of Post Oct 1 rules.

Dave

Bertfish · Dec 23, 2013

SB281 banned the manufacture of those rifles. Finishing an 80% lower would also be illegal as you are "manufacturing" a rifle.

I believe there was some doubt as to whether or not an 80%er could be finished and used for a pistol build but that probably isn't a good idea. You don't want to be the test case in court...

Bertfish · Dec 23, 2013

I should add that IF the 80%er was finished prior to 10/1 then you are good to go, build your rifle. But buying one now and finishing it is illegal

ar15dave · Dec 23, 2013

Bertfish said:
SB281 banned the manufacture of those rifles. Finishing an 80% lower would also be illegal as you are "manufacturing" a rifle.

I believe there was some doubt as to whether or not an 80%er could be finished and used for a pistol build but that probably isn't a good idea. You don't want to be the test case in court...

Definitely not. Am not looking to be someone's test bunny in court. I am just curious since I am seeing some posts of folks building them out. Thought they were illegal to build in MD. Was just curious as I see a few folks building them and posting pics, although I did not see if they were pistol version.

Dave

Bertfish · Dec 23, 2013

ar15dave said:
Definitely not. Am not looking to be someone's test bunny in court. I am just curious since I am seeing some posts of folks building them out. Thought they were illegal to build in MD. Was just curious as I see a few folks building them and posting pics, although I did not see if they were pistol version.

Dave

If you purchased or finished a receiver prior to 10/1 you can finish it and remain totally legal. The receiver is the "firearm" and you were in possession prior to the ban so you can do (almost) whatever you want.

I myself have a few lowers left to complete. People such as myself bought them prior to 10/1 because they had $150 for a receiver but not $900+ for a complete rifle.

webb297 · Dec 23, 2013

Bertfish said:
If you purchased and finished a receiver prior to 10/1 you can finish it (rest of the firearm) and remain totally legal. The receiver is the "firearm" and you were in possession prior to the ban so you can do (almost) whatever you want.

I myself have a few lowers left to complete. People such as myself bought them prior to 10/1 because they had $150 for a receiver but not $900+ for a complete rifle.

Clarified it for you. If you purchased and finished a 80% lower prior to 10/1, than you may legally add any other components to it you like.

If you bought a 80% lower, you did not buy a receiver (which were regulated), you bought a hunk of non regulated metal. The piece of metal might be able to be manufactured into a receiver, and pre 10/1 it was completely legal to do so for your personal use, without it being regulated.

Post 10/1 is is now illegal to manufacture a firearm (receiver) that is on the "banned" list or a copycat thereof, to include a 80% lower into a functional AR 15 lower receiver, no mater when the hunk of metal was purchased.

Technically, AR Pistols are not banned. Technically, you can still manufacture one yourself. However, the difference in a pistol receiver and a rifle receiver in the mind of the state is which box is checked on the 77R form, and you have not filled out any such form on the lower you manufactured, and that lower could still be used in a banned configuration, the state might try to prosecute, even if you built it to be a pistol and never put a shoulder stock on it.

Of course, the burden is still on the state to prove what you bought, and when you "manufactured it" so.... it is a gamble.

haoleboy · Dec 23, 2013

webb297 said:
Not completely correct. If you purchased and finished a 80% lower prior to 10/1, than you may legally add any other components to it you like.

If you bought a 80% lower, you did not buy a receiver (which were regulated), you bought a hunk of non regulated metal. The piece of metal might be able to be manufactured into a receiver, and pre 10/1 it was completely legal to do so for your personal use, without it being regulated.

Post 10/1 is is now illegal to manufacture a firearm (receiver) that is on the "banned" list or a copycat thereof, to include a 80% lower, no mater when the hunk of metal was purchased.

Technically, AR Pistols are not banned. Technically, you can still manufacture one yourself. However, the difference in a pistol receiver and a rifle receiver in the mind of the state is which box is checked on the 77R form, and you have not filled out any such form on the lower you manufactured, and that lower could still be used in a banned configuration, the state might try to persecute, even if you built it to be a pistol and never put a shoulder stock on it.

Of course, the burden is still on the state to prove what you bought, and when you "manufactured it" so.... it is a gamble.

That is how I see it also. If you bought a 80% lower at a gun show with cash a couple weeks from now, how would MSP know when you bought it and when you made it into a complete.
BUT, as stated before, do you really want to drain your bank account in court fighting the man?

Alphabrew · Dec 23, 2013

Ah, rats. I thought 80% receivers were still good to go. Oh well, there goes my dream of building one someday (as a MD resident, anyway).

ar15dave · Dec 23, 2013

webb297 said:
Of course, the burden is still on the state to prove what you bought, and when you "manufactured it" so.... it is a gamble.

Well as I am not really a gambler, never had any luck gambling I am not planning on building out any 80% myself. Just curious as I saw all these folks talking about buying 80% lowers and completing builds and such. Just curious really. SO much confusion around this SB281 stuff.

Thanks for clarifying. Guess those other folks building out theors got them all in line before the Oct 1 deadline.

Dave

FoxFirearms · Dec 23, 2013

Stay away from 80% lowers. The worst thing about them is no serial number. Get caught with it and I GUARANTEE you will be made an example of.

DaemonAssassin · Dec 23, 2013

Last I checked, federal law trumps state law. Just sayin... :innocent0

Pinecone · Dec 24, 2013

1) No serial number required.

2) If you are worried about that, put a serial number on it.

Alphabrew · Dec 24, 2013

Serial number: FUMD-SB281

ar15dave · Dec 24, 2013

Alphabrew said:
Serial number: FUMD-SB281

I had heard that if you built it for yourself and NOT for resale that a serial number was not required. True? False?

Anyway, I have no intentions of dealing with an 80% now unless I shelve it until I can move out of Maryland or the law changes.....Ok move out of Maryland.

Thanks for all the information.

Dave

webb297 · Dec 24, 2013

ar15dave said:
I had heard that if you built it for yourself and NOT for resale that a serial number was not required. True? False?

Anyway, I have no intentions of dealing with an 80% now unless I shelve it until I can move out of Maryland or the law changes.....Ok move out of Maryland.

Thanks for all the information.

Dave

True

SneakySh0rty · Dec 24, 2013

I wonder if the people misspoke. Like, they finished machining the lower before 10/1 but just now finished building it into complete rifle?

Else, they are gambling posting up pics/details of lowers completed after 10/1

cap6888 · Dec 24, 2013

I got all my EP lowers at the end of September and finished them immediately. I now have lowers with no foreseeable finish date on them, but the ability to do so whenever I can.

I just wish Polymer 80 got done in time to have gotten some. They seem like a really good product and better than the EP ones. Still crossing fingers for a polymer 80 AR10.

Deep Creek Rock · Dec 24, 2013

IANAL but....

What if you get pulled over by the MSP (or any LE for that matter) with a completed 80% lower AR - that is a copy of a now banned firearm, that has no record of being purchased on or before Oct 1 2013?

You are in essence manufacturing a banned weapon, with an 80% lower. Even if you had a reciept for the 80% lower before Oct 1, you cant really fully prove it, since it was never registered.

When you buy a stripped lower, or fully built non HBAR AR previously, you complete a 77R , in which the state has a record of the purchase date via the reciever serial number into a database.

The 80% lower deal sounds like a recipe for landing in hot water, should any LE check you for whatever reason. I think in a non anti 2a, real free state, the 80% lowers are non issue then.

spfrazierjr · Dec 24, 2013

Deep Creek Rock said:
IANAL but....

What if you get pulled over by the MSP (or any LE for that matter) with a completed 80% lower AR - that is a copy of a now banned firearm, that has no record of being purchased on or before Oct 1 2013?

You are in essence manufacturing a banned weapon, with an 80% lower. Even if you had a reciept for the 80% lower before Oct 1, you cant really fully prove it, since it was never registered.

When you buy a stripped lower, or fully built non HBAR AR previously, you complete a 77R , in which the state has a record of the purchase date via the reciever serial number into a database.

The 80% lower deal sounds like a recipe for landing in hot water, should any LE check you for whatever reason. I think in a non anti 2a, real free state, the 80% lowers are non issue then.

You don't have to prove anything, the state does. If you have a receipt for purchase prior to 10/1, then it's practically impossible for them to prove that it wasn't completed before 10/1.
IANAL

armed ferret · Dec 24, 2013

What the hell is an "AK-47 lower"?

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