Man Charged with" receiving a mag with 20 + capacity"...?

Kashmir1008 · Jul 31, 2009

squeky said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but say I live in Texas and mail a high capacity magazine to someone in Maryland. Didn't I break the MD law (along with the guy who received it) and subject to being charged under MD law? Or say I live in MD and mail a 20 round magazine or box of ammunition to someone in DC. Did I not just break DC law and subject to persecution.

In this cases you state, if I read the law correctly:

If you live in MD and take possession of a magazine via mail or in person you can be prosecuted.

If you live out of State and mail someone in MD the magazine I don't think you will be prosecuted by Maryland but many dealers won't ship Hi Cap mags to MD so that tells me you potentially may be charged under MD law for shipping a hi cap to someone in MD.

squeky · Jul 31, 2009

Kashmir1008 said:
In this cases you state, if I read the law correctly:

If you live in MD and take possession of a magazine via mail or in person you can be prosecuted.

If you live out of State and mail someone in MD the magazine I don't think you will be prosecuted by Maryland but many dealers won't ship Hi Cap mags to MD so that tells me you potentially may be charged under MD law for shipping a hi cap to someone in MD.

The only instance I can think of where an out-of-stater would be charged for such a thing would be if the recipient committed a high profile crime. Not hard to imagine what would happen if a Texas resident shipped a 100 round drum to a MD resident and MD resident shoots up a school. Mr. Texas resident would be paraded all over the media as the guy who supplied a mass killer an "illegal" drum magazine. He'd be screwed.

240 towles · Jul 31, 2009

I was at gander Mtn asking questions, and they tell me that sometimes when they order rifles, they recieve AR's with 30 rnd mags. They told me that they don't give them to the customers because of the law. But isn't this still breaking the law? I din't ask what they did with the mags, they may send them back.

3rdRcn · Jul 31, 2009

I don't think that the law applies to an out of state person shipping mags to a Maryland resident. Being in compliance with the laws of your state is your responsibility and not the person sending them from out of state as I understand it.

novus collectus · Aug 1, 2009

240 towles said:
I was at gander Mtn asking questions, and they tell me that sometimes when they order rifles, they recieve AR's with 30 rnd mags. They told me that they don't give them to the customers because of the law. But isn't this still breaking the law? I din't ask what they did with the mags, they may send them back.

Article - Criminal Law

§ 4-302.

This subtitle does not apply to:...

.... (3) purchases, sales, and transport to or by a licensed firearms dealer or manufacturer who is:

(i) providing or servicing an assault pistol or detachable magazine for a law enforcement unit or for personnel exempted under item (1) of this section; or

(ii) acting to sell or transfer an assault pistol or detachable magazine to a licensed firearm dealer in another state;

I guess they can claim they are just accepting them to give them back to an FFL dealer in another state even if it is the original one who sent it to them.

Markp · Aug 1, 2009

Hypothetical: If you have a wife (as apparently this guy does) and she picks up a magazine for his gun with a 30 round capacity in VA and brings it home for his birthday... He has just received a large capacity magazine in VA. She mentions this fact when he gets arrested. He's busted, right?

So what happens if you loan your AR-15 with a 30 round mag to the wife to go shoot? Have you just transferred a large capacity magazine? The law appears not to have a provision that protects a couple. An example of this is the ATF believes that you cannot "transfer" a machine gun between husband and wives either. It must be registered to a "person" (including corporations and trusts) and only a single entity may be the legal registered owner.

Mark

novus collectus · Aug 1, 2009

Markp said:
Hypothetical: If you have a wife (as apparently this guy does) and she picks up a magazine for his gun with a 30 round capacity in VA and brings it home for his birthday... He has just received a large capacity magazine in VA. She mentions this fact when he gets arrested. He's busted, right?

So what happens if you loan your AR-15 with a 30 round mag to the wife to go shoot? Have you just transferred a large capacity magazine? The law appears not to have a provision that protects a couple. An example of this is the ATF believes that you cannot "transfer" a machine gun between husband and wives either. It must be registered to a "person" (including corporations and trusts) and only a single entity may be the legal registered owner.

Mark

It depends on the definition of "recieve" because we may assume from the recent Chow decision that a "transfer" has to be a transfer of ownership to count and a loan is not a transfer.

If you are the range and you let someone use your mag, then I assume it is like a MG which I think is that unless it has left your control (left the range) it is still in your "possession". However since the MD law for mags does not deal with possession of others of your mag and only mentions "manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer", I do not see how someone else possessing your mag at a range would be a problem anyway.
But then we get back to what "recieve" means. If you loan a mag to someone to use outside of your control and it is not a transfer then I assume you are not breaking the law, but the person "recieving" it might have some problems.

Then there is the communal property among husband and wife. If you own a gun, it is yours and not both of yours, however other items like firarms accessories this does not seem to apply, so I assume (I am definitely not a lawyer), to magazines so I guess one could argue it was the knowing property of both and so therefore both could use it without it being considered one "receiveing" since both have control/title of the item.

Basically though I am speaking out my ass and until or unless there is court precedent the courts could state the opposite. I am just offering what I consider to be logical arguments that might be used against a criminal charge. (I am not a lawyer).

why2kmax · Aug 10, 2009

Ok I didnt see this aspect addressed. Here is my question on this and Ive gotten 2 different answers. the law is vague when it comes to Receive. I understand it to mean I cant buy or "receive" a 20+ round magazine as a MD resident "IN MARYLAND" as in if someone gives it to me or I buy it and have it mailed to me. IN MD

HOWEVER, Can I drive to PA or VA or whatever, buy a 30 round magazine in person for my own use in my own guns, bring it back to maryland and go to a range and use said 30 round mag in my gun? Is that legal or does this law mean NO 20+ round mags ever?

Some say yes it is legal because you bought the mag out of state and it was, and is, in your possession the entire time so you did NOT "receive" it, buy it or anything in MD Therefore its legal.

Some say NO its not legal because I received a 30 round mag and I am a MD resident. therefore its illegal.

squeky · Aug 10, 2009

why2kmax said:
HOWEVER, Can I drive to PA or VA or whatever, buy a 30 round magazine in person for my own use in my own guns, bring it back to maryland and go to a range and use said 30 round mag in my gun? Is that legal or does this law mean NO 20+ round mags ever?

That is totally legal and possession of 20+ round magazines in MD is legal. The state police even advocate it as a way to get high cap mags -- "just drive to PA and bring them back". You just cannot transfers magazines WHILE IN MD or have them mailed to you in one piece. You can, however, disassemble and receive them. Some vendors will even take the mag apart for ban states so it's only sold as replacement parts. There are easy ways (legally) around the law.

why2kmax · Aug 10, 2009

squeky said:
That is totally legal and possession of 20+ round magazines in MD is legal. The state police even advocate it as a way to get high cap mags -- "just drive to PA and bring them back". You just cannot transfers magazines WHILE IN MD or have them mailed to you in one piece. You can, however, disassemble and receive them. Some vendors will even take the mag apart for ban states so it's only sold as replacement parts. There are easy ways (legally) around the law.

Thank you!

squeky · Aug 10, 2009

why2kmax said:
Thank you!

No prob, welcome to the site.

If you'd like to receive high caps legally without leaving your house, try here: http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RK . They'll disassemble for $.99/mag.

Threeband · Aug 10, 2009

Doesn't the Maryland law ban "manufacturing" ?
This is from 44mag distributing:

A rebuild kit is a magazine that has been disassembled into parts and is to be used to rebuild a damaged magazine that the customer already legally owns. A rebuild kit normally consists of a magazine body, follower, spring, and floorplate. It is important that these kits are only used to rebuild magazines that the customer already owns as any other use will likely be a violation of state law. http://www.44mag.com/rk.asp

Combine that with this:

§ 4-305. Detachable magazines - Prohibited.

(b) Prohibited.- A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than 20 rounds of ammunition for a firearm.

and it sounds like you might want to be able to document prior ownership of the magazine body, and even then it sounds dodgy.

To me it sounds safer to make a little drive out of state, and save receipts.

rrrrrrkevin · Aug 11, 2009

squeky said:
No prob, welcome to the site.

If you'd like to receive high caps legally without leaving your house, try here: http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RK . They'll disassemble for $.99/mag.

Ofcoarse you have to leave the state to assemble them.

rrrrrrkevin · Aug 11, 2009

I dont keep any receipts from buying mags out of state,by the time someone actually checks you up on that it could be no different than a gas receipt that has been in your glovebox for a year and just a blank peice of paper. The burdon of proof is on them to prove that you have commited a crime,and with 44mag you are not receiving a high cap magazine you are receiving a kit to repair a current magazine that you own,ofcoarse if you did decide to manufacture a magazine if the capacity was more than 20 you would have to leave the state of maryland to do so.

Threeband · Aug 11, 2009

Maybe we should have a Magazine-Building Cookout at Codorus or Harper's Ferry...

rrrrrrkevin · Aug 11, 2009

or just say we did

novus collectus · Aug 11, 2009

rrrrrrkevin said:
or just say we did

I have no magazine kits....they all fell off the boat on that fatefull day on the Chesapeake Bay.

rrrrrrkevin · Aug 11, 2009

ummm I know I remember because mine were with yours

Yoboney · Aug 11, 2009

Wow, he got shafted. I bet he will lose all those guns. I would be in divorce court in a New York minute with that woman.

BoringJoe · Aug 12, 2009

20 tries is all you get in MD.

Man Charged with" receiving a mag with 20 + capacity"...?

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