Benelli M4 clones. (Turknelli M4)

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  • Slimjim

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 6, 2007
    3,074
    So, theres a huge thread on these on Arfcom, and i figured I would start one here.

    Theres 4 of these clones so far,

    SDS imports:
    AKSA S4 (Sold in canada as the Impact R4)
    TEK-12
    SAX-2 (may be a discontinued model as its no longer on their website)

    Charles daly 601
    Copolla Toros T4

    All of these are Built in turkey.
    And most of them (Exception of the Charles daly) are pretty much 1:1 clones of the Benelli M4, since the patent expired on their M4 shotgun.

    I would advise against buying the Charles daly at all, due to it having the most issues and being built the cheapest.

    My experience:

    I bought 2 of these off gunbroker for the price of 389 each.
    One of them looked brand new in the box, and the other one, looked used. There were primer rings in the face of the bolt, the Charging handle had wear on it, the charging handle was impossible to remove without a tool.

    I took them out and ran 100 rounds through each, starting with 10 rounds of buckshot for initial break in, then i cycled each gun 100 times by hand. Then i started on WWB rounds. The new looking shotgun ran fine with one stoppage where it failed to operate the bolt. The second shotgun however continously choked on any ammo except buckshot, and i didnt make it through 100 rounds as it would have been unneccessary to try.

    I have contacted SDS and the gun is currently back at their company being looked at. They were prompt with communication and even sent a paid return label.

    I replaced the S4 extractor with a benelli Extractor and spring, Last night i disassembled the S4 and polished with sandpaper the end of the bolt tail, so it was extremely smooth. Looking at the face of the hammer, it had multiple steps on the face of it, i used 1000 grit and went over it until it was smooth as well, this really helped with the cycling of the shotguns bolt by hand, there is no hangups on it. Before i could feel drag on it if slowly operating the bolt.

    You will also need to field strip the shotgun before using it, and knock the knife edge left on the edges of the loading and trigger guard area, Knock it off with a file, and than hit it with 1000 grit sandpaper. This will prevent you from getting a bunch of papercuts as they didnt dress the edges when they machine out the bottom of the receiver. I also removed the top rail, added loctite to the screws, and reinstalled them.

    I would suggest replacing the turkish hammer with a benelli hammer, which should increase smoothness in operating the bolt.

    Also it killed a cheap chinese red dot in 2 shots.

    Today i ran 15 rounds of the WWB 8 shot through it as fast as i could, worked great.

    Round count: 115.
     

    bigjoegood1

    King Lurker
    MDS Supporter
    May 2, 2005
    1,710
    Behind enemy lines
    Been really contemplating an M4 clone since an actual Benelli just ain't in the cards for me right now. Thanks for the insight.

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
     

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,447
    MD
    Been really contemplating an M4 clone since an actual Benelli just ain't in the cards for me right now. Thanks for the insight.

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

    How about the Remington Versamax? That's a US copy.
     

    -Z/28-

    I wanna go fast
    Dec 6, 2011
    10,647
    Harford Co
    I'd recommend the Beretta 1301 as a mote affordable alternative. Not the exact same design, but made by the same folks for 2/3rds the price.
     

    wreckdiver

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 13, 2008
    2,925
    Keep us posted when you get it. I’ve been tempted too, but not for the $700 Freestate wants for theirs.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I have to admit, these Turkish M4 clones have my interest. I semi regret selling my Vepr 12 and have considered picking one of these up to replace it. Or maybe just get a Chinese Vepr 12 clone
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I’d spend the $2k and get a Benelli
    Except that we're talking about $400, not $2k. That's not even the same order of magnitude. If some dude can get 95% of the performance for like 25% of the cost, I think that's worth talking about.

    Anyways, back on topic.

    Main difference between the SDS S4 and Tac-12 is really the recoil tube. Tac-12 recoil tube is set to use the Sulun collapsible stock. The S4 is set up for typical Benelli M4 fixed stocks. If you're going to use a Mesa Urbino, you really really want the (cheaper) S4. Note that the S4 and Tac-12 are also made by different manufacturers (Aksa and Sulun respectively), but presumably from a common parts base.

    Magazine tube swap is a chore like it is on the M4... need to heat up the inside of the tube (NOT THE RECEIVER) until it breaks the loctite. Requires some leather gloves, etc.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I’d spend the $2k and get a Benelli
    This would be for fun, not SRS OPERATOR OPERATIONS. I’m not spending $2k on something that I don’t care much about (semi auto shotguns). $400 has my attention though.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Except that we're talking about $400, not $2k. That's not even the same order of magnitude. If some dude can get 95% of the performance for like 25% of the cost, I think that's worth talking about.

    Anyways, back on topic.

    Main difference between the SDS S4 and Tac-12 is really the recoil tube. Tac-12 recoil tube is set to use the Sulun collapsible stock. The S4 is set up for typical Benelli M4 fixed stocks. If you're going to use a Mesa Urbino, you really really want the (cheaper) S4. Note that the S4 and Tac-12 are also made by different manufacturers (Aksa and Sulun respectively), but presumably from a common parts base.

    Magazine tube swap is a chore like it is on the M4... need to heat up the inside of the tube (NOT THE RECEIVER) until it breaks the loctite. Requires some leather gloves, etc.
    When you get yours to the point you’re happy with it, would you mind posting a build list?
     

    Bertfish

    Throw bread on me
    Mar 13, 2013
    17,606
    White Marsh, MD
    This would be for fun, not SRS OPERATOR OPERATIONS. I’m not spending $2k on something that I don’t care much about (semi auto shotguns). $400 has my attention though.

    $2000 would buy me a much nicer gun than an M4

    Benelli won't sell the M4 with the collapsible stock, or so I've been told. You can buy the fixed stock version then pay another $500 or so for their collapsible stock. They can suck it.
     

    Slimjim

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 6, 2007
    3,074
    $2000 would buy me a much nicer gun than an M4

    Benelli won't sell the M4 with the collapsible stock, or so I've been told. You can buy the fixed stock version then pay another $500 or so for their collapsible stock. They can suck it.

    What do you consider a nicer tactical shotgun than the M4?

    Anyway, until more info comes out about these shotguns, long term tests and such, i would say these are great shotguns to get the M4 experience (and it honestly has me wanting to buy a real M4 now) i would consider adding benelli parts to it if and when the turkish parts break, however if you buy one inspect it before taking it home.

    These guns can be had under 400 on Gunbroker for the Aksa S4’s.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    When you get yours to the point you’re happy with it, would you mind posting a build list?
    Yes. Really, there's not much here, but I am very happy with it.

    SDS S4:
    Mesa Urbino stock (922r) (use a 8-1.25x25 screw)
    Benelli extractor and extractor spring
    Dave's Metal Works 7-Shot Magazine Tube and Spring (922r)
    NDZ Performance Follower (922r)

    I have a TTI charging handle coming in next year; we'll see how well it fits. I think the factory one is usable, if not a bit spartan.

    I just did the magazine tube replacement tonight; thankfully, there was not a lot of loc-tite, so hitting it with a butane torch for a minute disabled it quite easily. After that, I just turned it with a strap-wrench until it broke free. I could hand twist it off the receiver after that. Reassembly with the new tube/spring/follower was no problem; I used a bit of blue loctite to keep it on there.

    Again: you gotta heat the INSIDE OF THE TUBE where it threads into the receiver. This means you will be working with the torch inside your receiver from the bottom. Do not try to heat the receiver, that is 1) not going to work and 2) may destroy your gun's receiver. I would suggest going straight to a torch and skipping the heat gun. One other pitfall is that the spring retainer won't fit the new tube, so you're going to have to compress it like you would on a normal shotgun. Plus side, take-down becomes one step less complicated since you don't have the useless extension getting in the way.

    Keep in mind that, except for the extractor/spring, these are all upgrades you'd be doing to a legit Benelli M4 anyways.

    Another thing I would strongly advise with these guns is doing an initial 25-50 round buckshot/slug test to make sure your carrier and pistons were heat-treated correctly. You will be able to quickly tell if they are peening after that.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Except that we're talking about $400, not $2k. That's not even the same order of magnitude. If some dude can get 95% of the performance for like 25% of the cost, I think that's worth talking about.

    Anyways, back on topic.

    Main difference between the SDS S4 and Tac-12 is really the recoil tube. Tac-12 recoil tube is set to use the Sulun collapsible stock. The S4 is set up for typical Benelli M4 fixed stocks. If you're going to use a Mesa Urbino, you really really want the (cheaper) S4. Note that the S4 and Tac-12 are also made by different manufacturers (Aksa and Sulun respectively), but presumably from a common parts base.

    Magazine tube swap is a chore like it is on the M4... need to heat up the inside of the tube (NOT THE RECEIVER) until it breaks the loctite. Requires some leather gloves, etc.

    Yes and no. 95% of the performance out of my hunting gun or something I use for competition is fine. However, my M4 is my main home defense gun and the one I would go to first. I need as close to 100% as I can get. Same goes for my home defense handguns, which are all Sigs and one HK. same goes for my home defense AR, which is made by JP Rifle.

    However, if 95% of an M4 clone is what is affordable to somebody, it is still better than a Louisville Slugger. Worst case scenario, it can be used just like a Louisville Slugger.

    Now, picking up an M4 clone and setting it up with a rifled barrel and a scope for deer hunting would be an option. That is if my SBE wasn't already set up for sabots.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    $2000 would buy me a much nicer gun than an M4

    Benelli won't sell the M4 with the collapsible stock, or so I've been told. You can buy the fixed stock version then pay another $500 or so for their collapsible stock. They can suck it.

    922(r) compliant with a new trigger group, mag follower, mag spring, recoil spring, and recoil spring tube. No shell carriers yet. I debate them once in a while and always end up on the "no" side of the debate.
     

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    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Yes and no. 95% of the performance out of my hunting gun or something I use for competition is fine. However, my M4 is my main home defense gun and the one I would go to first. I need as close to 100% as I can get. Same goes for my home defense handguns, which are all Sigs and one HK. same goes for my home defense AR, which is made by JP Rifle.
    That's awesome. I'm not using this for home defense. I would not encourage others to, at least until they vet it out themselves. Having people lecture me about 100% performance is also vaguely hilarious given how often I shoot matches. I repeat: 95% of the performance for 25% of the cost is worth a discussion. If you need 100% performance and believe a legit Benelli M4 will give you this, this is not the thread for you. Please feel free to not participate.

    Maybe the "Benelli M4 or bust" crowd could find some other thread to pat themselves on the back in? :sad20:

    Also, my S4 has an Aridus QD-C setup on it, but I didn't find that germane to the discussion.
     

    Sirex

    Powered by natural gas
    Oct 30, 2010
    10,380
    Westminster, MD
    So, theres a huge thread on these on Arfcom, and i figured I would start one here.

    Theres 4 of these clones so far,

    SDS imports:
    AKSA S4 (Sold in canada as the Impact R4)
    TEK-12
    SAX-2 (may be a discontinued model as its no longer on their website)

    Charles daly 601
    Copolla Toros T4

    All of these are Built in turkey.
    And most of them (Exception of the Charles daly) are pretty much 1:1 clones of the Benelli M4, since the patent expired on their M4 shotgun.

    I would advise against buying the Charles daly at all, due to it having the most issues and being built the cheapest.

    My experience:

    I bought 2 of these off gunbroker for the price of 389 each.
    One of them looked brand new in the box, and the other one, looked used. There were primer rings in the face of the bolt, the Charging handle had wear on it, the charging handle was impossible to remove without a tool.

    I took them out and ran 100 rounds through each, starting with 10 rounds of buckshot for initial break in, then i cycled each gun 100 times by hand. Then i started on WWB rounds. The new looking shotgun ran fine with one stoppage where it failed to operate the bolt. The second shotgun however continously choked on any ammo except buckshot, and i didnt make it through 100 rounds as it would have been unneccessary to try.

    I have contacted SDS and the gun is currently back at their company being looked at. They were prompt with communication and even sent a paid return label.

    I replaced the S4 extractor with a benelli Extractor and spring, Last night i disassembled the S4 and polished with sandpaper the end of the bolt tail, so it was extremely smooth. Looking at the face of the hammer, it had multiple steps on the face of it, i used 1000 grit and went over it until it was smooth as well, this really helped with the cycling of the shotguns bolt by hand, there is no hangups on it. Before i could feel drag on it if slowly operating the bolt.

    You will also need to field strip the shotgun before using it, and knock the knife edge left on the edges of the loading and trigger guard area, Knock it off with a file, and than hit it with 1000 grit sandpaper. This will prevent you from getting a bunch of papercuts as they didnt dress the edges when they machine out the bottom of the receiver. I also removed the top rail, added loctite to the screws, and reinstalled them.

    I would suggest replacing the turkish hammer with a benelli hammer, which should increase smoothness in operating the bolt.

    Also it killed a cheap chinese red dot in 2 shots.

    Today i ran 15 rounds of the WWB 8 shot through it as fast as i could, worked great.

    Round count: 115.

    So, you have 2 of the SDS S4s? One worked fine, the other went back?
    Thank for the info, as I am very interested in a M4 clone. I have a real Benelli M2, and it is a fine shotgun, but I have been considering selling it as, I don't need 100% of the performance. My Mossberg 500 is my home defense shotgun. The M2 is a fantastic shotgun, but recoil is a bit more stout than my gas gun, however I did get a Comfortech stock to try. I also bought a Tristar Tec 12, the Turkish clone of the Benelli M3. It has run 100% so far, and the only thing I had to do was loctite the rail screws. Otherwise for the low price I paid, I have been really happy with it. I don't do 3 gun and shoot thousands of rounds though, but I love the look and potential reduced recoil of the M4 type shotgun over a inertia gun.

    Battlefield Las Vegas did a thread a while back about shotguns, and the ONLY shotgun that has held up was the Benelli M4. So, my thought was to sell my M2, maybe my Tec 12 and buy a real M4, or just buy a M4 clone. I had a Vepr 12 which was really badass, but the mags were heavy, bulky, and pricey which turned me off to mag fed shotguns. But my go to home defense shotguns are still pump action shotties.

    Do you have a link to the AFCOM thread by chance? Thx
     

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