And so it starts... Live auction restrictions

mawkie · May 31, 2018

Didn't see this coming though I'm not totally surprised. Everyone here knows how much I love and rely on auctions to acquire items for my collection. Up to this point the only broad restriction I've run across was that for ivory, which is based on federal law.
This morning I received the following from Affiliated Auction in Florida. I've participated and purchased from them and they're a class act. Even more so in my eyes on the news that Auctionzip and Invaluable, two of the larger live auction sites, are putting restrictions on what can be listed on their sites. They have decided that legal Class III and "assault style" semi-automatic weapons are evil and will not allow them to be listed and sold on their sites. Ditto for Third Reich historical items. Lord knows where that stops. Is it all WWII German firearms and accessories? No K98k for P38 for you. I guarantee Confederate Civil War historical items will be next on the chopping block. Just watch.
I'm sick of history getting white-washed to protect someone from being offended. It all screams of lawyers, liberals and political correctness. Perhaps they need to ban the sale of all Japanese automobiles as many from the Pearl Harbor generation are offended by them. My money will go to Proxibid who seems to be holding the line for now.

RepublicOfFranklin · May 31, 2018

Seriously hate “assault-style” wordings. It’s only definition is “well we was spineless Charlie who works in HR if it’s scary or not”.

Do those sites work on making a % of money per auction sale? Bc that in theory, is leaving a ton of cash on the table.

Now I’m wondering if this will effect James Julia or what used to be Rock Island, although RIA is nearly all class 3 stuff.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Neot · May 31, 2018

I wonder if they will enforce the "Nazi" rule on things like K98's or P38's or if they will allow a work around by wording it as say "German K98 with markings".

Squaregrouper · May 31, 2018

Send them an "unsubscribe" request and tell them why.

Alea Jacta Est · May 31, 2018

Don’t look now fellas...that little plick Hogg and his puppet masters are winning.

#crackdatslab

mawkie · May 31, 2018

squaregrouper said:
Send them an "unsubscribe" request and tell them why.

First thing I did this morning. Saw this happen over on Evil Pay and now it's migrating to the live auction world. There's a ton of money made on firearm auctions, takes a lot of glass jars and beanie babies to equal what they make when a pistol is sold. So I'm hoping money will talk louder. If I remember correctly both AuctionZip and Invaluable charge the auction house more than Proxibid so this might not be too hurtful in the end as long as Proxibid doesn't follow suit.

somd_mustangs · May 31, 2018

evilPay still has WW2 German items that have "nazi" proofs (P38 slides, barrels, mags, for example) I think they are targeting the flags, daggers etc that are more visible.
But it's a lucrative portion of the market, and cutting off their nose to spite their face so to speak.
I like the auction house response, basically use our service - which is cheaper anyway - and we're still supporting those historical items

iH8DemLibz · May 31, 2018

The letter should have stated what is and what is not Nazi related.

I can only think of one symbol that would directly corollate to The Party itself.

All other historical items are strictly German in nature.

I don't see German made handguns and rifles being verboten.

dist1646 · May 31, 2018

Top right of the page; "Never settle for less" and they are telling you that you have to settle for less! :sad20:

ohen cepel · May 31, 2018

I wrote off Gunbroker not long ago and can add these guys to that list.

May be good for shows and local dealers though if more and more go this way.
I far prefer a local show or dealer over internet guys.

RepublicOfFranklin · May 31, 2018

ohen cepel said:
I wrote off Gunbroker not long ago and can add these guys to that list.

May be good for shows and local dealers though if more and more go this way.

I far prefer a local show or dealer over internet guys.

Why GunBroker?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ohen cepel · May 31, 2018

RepublicOfFranklin said:
Why GunBroker?

Had an account for 10+ years, maybe 20 with perfect feedback and many deals done there. Anyway, changed an old email I had on the account and that triggered them wanting a copy of my drivers license and I think a utility bill to verify my address. I sent them my FFL but wasn't going any further than that. I will provide proper documentation to a seller/buyer as required by law but GB doesn't need that from me.

Tired of more and more people/businesses making crap up to CYA or to simply make themselves feel good. What will they want next time? My job is NOT to provide personal information for others to sooner or later have it compromised. Have enough out there as it is.

Also, the ads on GB have gotten horrible so I don't mind leaving.

Signed up on another auction site and went on with life.

AssMan · May 31, 2018

Wow, that's a shame. I'm not a serious collector like you (and I'm certainly no fan of the Nazi's) but I have a few Nazi/German/Dirty Bird marked WW2 pieces in my collection because I love the connection to history. And like it or not, Nazi Germany is part of that history. Same for the CSA stuff.

The ongoing whitewashing of history is concerning.

Abulg1972 · May 31, 2018

mawkie said:
Didn't see this coming though I'm not totally surprised. Everyone here knows how much I love and rely on auctions to acquire items for my collection. Up to this point the only broad restriction I've run across was that for ivory, which is based on federal law.

This morning I received the following from Affiliated Auction in Florida. I've participated and purchased from them and they're a class act. Even more so in my eyes on the news that Auctionzip and Invaluable, two of the larger live auction sites, are putting restrictions on what can be listed on their sites. They have decided that legal Class III and "assault style" semi-automatic weapons are evil and will not allow them to be listed and sold on their sites. Ditto for Third Reich historical items. Lord knows where that stops. Is it all WWII German firearms and accessories? No K98k for P38 for you. I guarantee Confederate Civil War historical items will be next on the chopping block. Just watch.

I'm sick of history getting white-washed to protect someone from being offended. It all screams of lawyers, liberals and political correctness. Perhaps they need to ban the sale of all Japanese automobiles as many from the Pearl Harbor generation are offended by them. My money will go to Proxibid who seems to be holding the line for now.

It’s not “Lawyers”. It’s liberal douchebags, some of whom happen to be lawyers, who are ruining this country. But, in being triggered and demanding that all feeling-hurting speech be silenced, it’s them being snowflakes and not lawyers.

mawkie · May 31, 2018

Abulg1972 said:
It’s not “Lawyers”. It’s liberal douchebags, some of whom happen to be lawyers, who are ruining this country. But, in being triggered and demanding that all feeling-hurting speech be silenced, it’s them being snowflakes and not lawyers.

I mentioned lawyers because potential liability gets used as justification by many businesses like Evil Pay to restrict what legal items can and can't be sold. That it happens to fit their world view is just a "bonus". The libertarian in me just despises this BS.

NebTim · Jun 18, 2018

i hate vague wording, why dont they just say anything that looks scary, or is black, or goes bang, whatevers

capt14k · Jul 4, 2018

Abulg1972 said:
It’s not “Lawyers”. It’s liberal douchebags, some of whom happen to be lawyers, who are ruining this country. But, in being triggered and demanding that all feeling-hurting speech be silenced, it’s them being snowflakes and not lawyers.

It's Liberal Lawyers. Let's face facts certain Lawyers are the cause of a lot of this BS. There would be a lot less lawsuits without lawyers.

Either way Auction Zip, Invaluable, Live Auctioneers, and Proxibid are only good for searching in one spot. Bidding through them you get hit with an extra 3-5% buyers premium. Many auction houses have their own websites to bid through. Even better request a phone call and phone bid. There is often an additional discount for phone bidding (go figure).

Trying to ignore and hide history does not change it. History is to be learned from so it does not repeat itself.

Abulg1972 · Jul 11, 2018

capt14k said:
It's Liberal Lawyers. Let's face facts certain Lawyers are the cause of a lot of this BS. There would be a lot less lawsuits without lawyers..

Let’s face facts. It’s not any “lawyers”. No one is suing anyone over Nazi or KKK memorabilia. In fact, no one is suing any auction company - or otherwise asserting some violation of law - over anything. Would there be a lot less motor vehicle accident lawsuits if lawyers didn’t exist? Probably. Would the absence of lawyers cause Invaluable and Auctionzip to stop selling National Socialist German Workers Party armbands? Nyet.

mawkie · Jul 14, 2018

Abulg1972 said:
Let’s face facts. It’s not any “lawyers”. No one is suing anyone over Nazi or KKK memorabilia. In fact, no one is suing any auction company - or otherwise asserting some violation of law - over anything. Would there be a lot less motor vehicle accident lawsuits if lawyers didn’t exist? Probably. Would the absence of lawyers cause Invaluable and Auctionzip to stop selling National Socialist German Workers Party armbands? Nyet.

There doesn't need to be an actual suit to provoke action. Just the potential for liability is enough to stop many businesses. Point in case. I'm a cyclist and love Italian MET brand helmets. Happen to fit my noggin perfectly. You see them all over Europe and on TV in the professional peleton. But in the US? Nada, none. Because MET made a decision to not sell in the US over the potential to be sued. I had to smuggle mine into the country. Crazy decision to bypass a huge market? Perhaps, but their management did the risk/reward calculation and thus the decision to say no sales in the US.

Abulg1972 · Jul 14, 2018

mawkie said:
There doesn't need to be an actual suit to provoke action. Just the potential for liability is enough to stop many businesses. Point in case. I'm a cyclist and love Italian MET brand helmets. Happen to fit my noggin perfectly. You see them all over Europe and on TV in the professional peleton. But in the US? Nada, none. Because MET made a decision to not sell in the US over the potential to be sued. I had to smuggle mine into the country. Crazy decision to bypass a huge market? Perhaps, but their management did the risk/reward calculation and thus the decision to say no sales in the US.

You’re comparing apples to oranges. Selling Nazi memorabilia raises zero potential for liability. There is no statutory law and no common law in the United States that a sale of such memorabilia could violate. So, there’s no threat of any suit or liability and no lawyer is making this happen. This is 100% about feelings, like half the crap going on today. Maybe they worry that they’ll lose sales because snowflakes would be unhappy if they allowed Nazi memorabilia?

And so it starts... Live auction restrictions

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