Proposed Citizen-Accessible NICS for Universal Background Investigation

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  • mtoutback

    Member
    Apr 16, 2010
    12
    In conversations with others and another forum (don't remember which one), a Proposed Citizen-Accessible NICS for Universal Background Investigation proposal has been discussed which, in my opinion, would address many of the concerns of both sides of the issue. While I am sure there wholes that can be poked in the proposal, I think it is at least worth discussing an alternative to what our senator's are proposing:

    The proposal:
    The federal government will create a system like NICS that will allow ALL citizens who wish to purchase a firearm the ability to enter their own identifying information (name, birth date, birthplace, social security number) into a system that provides the citizen with a’buyer code’ that the citizen could then provide to the seller of the firearm.
    By entering their own information, the potential-buyer would not have to share their sensitive Personally Identifiable Information to another party.

    The seller could then access the system, enter the buyer’s name, and birthdate – both easily obtained from government issued identification that the buyer would show to the purchaser - and then seller enters the ‘buyer code’ provided by the buyer.

    The citizen-accessible NICs would then validate the name, birthdate, and ‘buyer code’ and provide to the seller confirmation that the buyer is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm.No link would exist between the purchase or buyer and there would be absolutely no way to create a federal registry of who bought or sold what gun.

    By making the system accessible to ALL citizens, there should be no undue burden placed on purchasers or sellers.

    This system could also be used to replace the current NICS check performed by licensed dealers.

    It is my understanding that currently licensees enter a code provided when NICS approves of the purchase. In the new system, the dealer could enter the code provided by the buyer after the dealer verification that it was valid.

    Any potential buyers who are denied by the citizen-accessible NICS would have an appeals process similar to what is currently in place.

    In my opinion, it would be good to get some ideas of 'acceptable' universal background check proposals to all of our senators while the debate is still happening.

    Any thoughts on such a proposal - Good or Bad?
     

    ericoak

    don't drop Aboma on me
    Feb 20, 2010
    6,806
    Howard County
    This is a registry of every gun owner.

    Currently they are required to shred the information within 48 hours. Supposedly.
     

    Markp

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 22, 2008
    9,392
    Why don't we all just wear implantable RFID devices that have our status programmed on them... That would be secure, just like our personal health information is with the government. :lol2: You would then share your public keys with another person and thusly be validated just like with a CAC card and after you enter your PIN number they get the validation of status.

    Simple, easy, & freedom enhancing. NOT.
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,735
    Better idea is for the buyer get precleared and then the seller can call a number to verify its real. No personal info involved.

    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
     

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,452
    MD
    I'm willing to deal. When they repeal every gun/ ammo/ mag ban out there and decide to go after criminals and keep them in jail, I'll agree to background checks. Until then, they can pound sand. I have access to places that most people don't even know exist as long as I'm on the clock. When I go off the clock I need to be fingerprinted to exercise a civil right? Ef them.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    I'm willing to deal. When they repeal every gun/ ammo/ mag ban out there and decide to go after criminals and keep them in jail, I'll agree to background checks. Until then, they can pound sand. I have access to places that most people don't even know exist as long as I'm on the clock. When I go off the clock I need to be fingerprinted to exercise a civil right? Ef them.

    I have long said I would be in favor of universal background checks if the government respected the 2A. I have no faith this would be used to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people.

    The problem with the way these people think is that they don't think more than 1 step ahead. It's like the licensing. Yes, it will stop straw purchases. I don't think there is any questions. So all these dolts pat each other on the back and tell the public they are safer. The supply of guns for the criminal element doesn't change. The source shifts. Now we may see an increase in gun thefts. In the long run, it will have no impact.
     

    Anotherpyr

    Ultimate Member
    I'm willing to deal. When they repeal every gun/ ammo/ mag ban out there and decide to go after criminals and keep them in jail, I'll agree to background checks. Until then, they can pound sand. I have access to places that most people don't even know exist as long as I'm on the clock. When I go off the clock I need to be fingerprinted to exercise a civil right? Ef them.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/23/nation/la-na-california-inmate-release-20110524

    I wouldn't hold my breath.
     

    Ab_Normal

    Ab_member
    Feb 2, 2010
    8,613
    Carroll County
    The system I like most would only keep the data on convicted criminals. You would:

    1 - do a search by name/first 5,6,7 of ss #/address/pretty much anything
    2 - verify the person against mug shots
    3 -do a screen save/print of where the person you are checking out would fit in
    4 - Copy or take a picture of their indentifying documents for your records
    5 - proceed with the transfer

    pretty much like the background check now

    the receipt of these picture or documents would absolve the seller of any wrongdoing IF the buyer wound up being a criminal

    Not very difficult. It wouldn't keep the info of the buyer to create a registry and wouldn't violate the rights of convicted criminals.
     

    Mdeng

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Nov 13, 2009
    8,568
    Virginia
    I'm willing to deal. When they repeal every gun/ ammo/ mag ban out there and decide to go after criminals and keep them in jail, I'll agree to background checks. Until then, they can pound sand. I have access to places that most people don't even know exist as long as I'm on the clock. When I go off the clock I need to be fingerprinted to exercise a civil right? Ef them.

    Well said.

    You and I work in some of the same places, well I work you watch to make sure I don't steal anything but you get the idea.:lol2:

    It makes no sense that a law abiding citizen be treated like a criminal to exercise a constitutional enumerated right.
     

    Echo

    Troublemaker
    Oct 31, 2012
    1,076
    Annapolis
    A simple system where a buyer and seller exchange info and run a NICS check at an online web portal with a sale/no sale receipt and all data being destroyed like it currently is after 24 hours with no registration. This might be OK but I would never trust them to implement it properly without trying to force registration or lying like they have with the current NICS system and "accidentally" keeping records. There's also the problem of just saying "all transactions needs NCIS", they need to make exceptions for giving firearms to family and loaning to friends. No bans, No magazine restrictions.

    But in the end I don't trust them, they won't make it simple and fair. It's clear they want as many restrictions as possible with an end goal of eliminating private gun ownership by law-abiding citizens. They want us to "compromise" by giving in to their demands.
     

    Ab_Normal

    Ab_member
    Feb 2, 2010
    8,613
    Carroll County
    A simple system where a buyer and seller exchange info and run a NICS check at an online web portal with a sale/no sale receipt and all data being destroyed like it currently is after 24 hours. No registration. This might be OK but I would never trust them to implement it properly without trying to force registration or lying like they have with the current NICS system and "accidently" keeping records. I Don't trust them, It's clear they want as many restrictions as possible with an end goal of eliminating private gun ownership by law-abiding citizens.

    You have too much faith that the info will be destroyed.
     

    Sportstud4891

    Resident SMIB
    Jun 7, 2011
    1,508
    Chuck County
    Better idea is for the buyer get precleared and then the seller can call a number to verify its real. No personal info involved.

    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

    I like this idea. The buyer gets an identifier, name and number or something, that the seller can go online or call the ATF and verify that this person is allowed to own a firearm.

    But I also agree with zoostation that until they keep violent criminals behind bars without early releases and actually prosecute criminals to mandatory sentences then I am unwilling to give an inch.
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,735
    I like this idea. The buyer gets an identifier, name and number or something, that the seller can go online or call the ATF and verify that this person is allowed to own a firearm.

    But I also agree with zoostation that until they keep violent criminals behind bars without early releases and actually prosecute criminals to mandatory sentences then I am unwilling to give an inch.

    Yeah. My system protects privacy because no information about the buyer is given to the seller, only a simple "proceed" or "deny" is given when the seller calls the verification number.

    No information about the type of firearm purchased is recorded.
     

    Echo

    Troublemaker
    Oct 31, 2012
    1,076
    Annapolis
    I like this idea. The buyer gets an identifier, name and number or something, that the seller can go online or call the ATF and verify that this person is allowed to own a firearm.

    But I also agree with zoostation that until they keep violent criminals behind bars without early releases and actually prosecute criminals to mandatory sentences then I am unwilling to give an inch.

    That is a kinds of a better idea... But this opens up for them to say why not just allow licensing?
    (Note: I do not endorse licensing or registration!)

    You have too much faith that the info will be destroyed.

    I know that's why there's the second statement saying I don't trust them to do it right. :D
    Its practically guaranteed they wont do it right. They never do. It was more wishful thinking.
     

    Rem700fan

    Ammo Disposal Expert
    Jul 11, 2012
    688
    Eastern Panhandle, WV
    Sure we can call in or access the web, we will use my phone or computer. Most phones keep track of the last numbers entered and computers can do the same. Do you really trust your info on my phone/computer???
    The atf is currently keeping records of NICS checks, just not keeping them all in one place. There will have to some kind of registry or it will never work. How will they track if you bought a gun FTF recently and sell in the future without a check? The idea is full of more holes than a sponge and will not prevent criminals from getting guns. Criminals will still avoid any system put in place as they do now because by their nature they do not obey the law. Enforcement of existing laws, serving full sentences, no plea bargains for violent crimes, needs to be done.
    No compromising on this one, they will whittle away little by little. What will we give in to next?
     

    Tyeraxus

    Ultimate Member
    May 15, 2012
    1,165
    East Tennessee
    I guess I'm more a fan of truly universal checks - everybody gets one when they apply for any kind of govt Id, and they get a 'buyer number' on their Id card (think DUNS number if you've ever worked in procurement, but everybody gets one). NICS checks are a simple websearch that returns the ID photo and either 'Prohibited' or 'Not Prohibited'. Or 'Invalid Number' in which case you have a problem. There. Truly universal, no records kept, a printout available if the seller wants one to cover his ass... ok, there's the idea, now tell me what's wrong with it.
     

    Echo

    Troublemaker
    Oct 31, 2012
    1,076
    Annapolis
    Sure we can call in or access the web, we will use my phone or computer. Most phones keep track of the last numbers entered and computers can do the same. Do you really trust your info on my phone/computer???
    The atf is currently keeping records of NICS checks, just not keeping them all in one place. There will have to some kind of registry or it will never work. How will they track if you bought a gun FTF recently and sell in the future without a check? The idea is full of more holes than a sponge and will not prevent criminals from getting guns. Criminals will still avoid any system put in place as they do now because by their nature they do not obey the law. Enforcement of existing laws, serving full sentences, no plea bargains for violent crimes, needs to be done.
    No compromising on this one, they will whittle away little by little. What will we give in to next?

    I understand. These idea are nice but not very enforceable and can just be ignored for the right price. Only after a gun is used in a crime would it matter and only if records were kept and by then its too late... it was already used in a crime.
     

    ShallNotInfringe

    Lil Firecracker
    Feb 17, 2013
    8,554
    Ok, so if they insist on infringing... Here my compromise.

    Separate the firearms from the person.

    You get a national firearm card, by submitting to a thorough background check, which enables you to do the following on a national level:
    A. Own any firearm you wish
    B. Cash and carry any firearm in any state
    C. Concealed carry anywhere

    Or not exercise it if you choose not to.

    *** If you think a theatre filled with unarmed people against a lone gunman is scary, imagine a disarmed populace against a tyrannical government ***
     
    Last edited:

    mtoutback

    Member
    Apr 16, 2010
    12
    If you read closer, that's what the proposal is - buyer gets a number, seller checks it to see that it valid.
     

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