AK 47 info

rseymorejr · Aug 8, 2012

My son and I are finishing up a couple of AR15's and naturally we are looking to the next project.

Is it worth it to try and build an AK or would it be better to buy one?
Are they that much more complicated to put together than an AR?

Nothing fancy, just something to play around at the range with. There are so many variations; Yugo, Romanian etc, etc. What should we look for to get a resonable,reliable, accurate, decent quality rifle, if we decide to buy them?

This will be our first experience in the AK world and it seems overwhelming.

Nemesis · Aug 8, 2012

I would suggest buying a saiga rifle and doing the work to that...actually building one from scratch can be a pain, and isint worth it imho.

rob-cubed · Aug 8, 2012

Much more complicated to put together than an AR. Not hard per se, but I would suggest buying one and deciding how much you like it before undertaking a build.

At minimum you'll need a couple of different rivet jigs and a shop press. Assuming you buy a pre-headspaced and drilled barrel and a built receiver. The more you want to do from scratch, the more complicated it gets.

erwos · Aug 8, 2012

Cue the rambling hordes who are going to tell you not to call it an AK-47.

If you desperately want to build, get a Saiga with the appropriate front-end and build from that. It is indeed much more complicated than building an AR-15 (which is essentially shoving some pins in holes and tightening a couple things).

That said, I've done the Saiga builds before, and they're not going to really save you much money vs buying a SGL from K-Var or an M+M M10. I would recommend buying a decent quality AK, like the two I just mentioned, and being done with it.

aquaman · Aug 8, 2012

It seems to be some kind of fad these days 'building' your own AK. Unless you have parts already and have done a couple of them I would strongly suggest you buy one already done. The build-your-own boat sailed long ago. You can Google 'build your own AK' there is a good series on you tube showing every step. There are plenty of people on the internet that will tell you how easy it is but I suspect 90% of them have never actually done it. It is not easy to get factory built quality on your own, not without some practice and quality jigs. I would buy an SGL21 , it will be quality and cheaper than all the parts/tools needed. edit- if you value your time thats also a cost to consider when building

smores · Aug 8, 2012

aquaman said:
It seems to be some kind of fad these days 'building' your own AK. Unless you have parts already and have done a couple of them I would strongly suggest you buy one already done. The build-your-own boat sailed long ago. You can Google 'build your own AK' there is a good series on you tube showing every step. There are plenty of people on the internet that will tell you how easy it is but I suspect 90% of them have never actually done it. It is not easy to get factory built quality on your own, not without some practice and quality jigs. I would buy an SGL21 , it will be quality and cheaper than all the parts/tools needed. edit- if you value your time thats also a cost to consider when building

Thank you. As a gunsmith I have NEVER built an AK. It's not worth the time/investment in all the specialty tools/jigs unless I were going to be doing it for a living. There are already several quality AKs on the market so I never felt compelled to get into it... Besides the fact that it seems like everyone out there that builds them in their garages learned from the internet. And I know better than to trust random tutorials/YouTube videos. I'm not aware of Izhmash (or any other state arsenal) teaching American civilians how to build/maintain AKs. Pretty much anything you come across in terms of instructions or how-to guides will be from reverse engineering or jerry-rigging. Of course there are professional gunsmiths who have spent tons of time working on it which is good. I could never find the type of training/information needed to become a "competent" gunsmith on the AK platform. Saiga conversions are one thing, building them from the ground up is different. The same thing is true in the HK rifle/subgun world, there are a FEW legit shops, and as far as I know the only real HK armorers work for HK, at HK. Anything else is someone who used to work there or has lots of experience doing it. Not the same thing...

It's a lot like 1911 work. Sure, if you're mechanically inclined you may be able to do it, but even after spending $500-1000 on tools/jigs, are you going to be able to build a gun as nice as one you can buy from a reputable maker? Probably not.

If you have asstons of money for the tooling (spot welders aren't cheap), a home machine shop and time on your hands for such a project - go for it. :thumbsup:

rseymorejr · Aug 8, 2012

It looks like y'all talked me out of building them. I guess I'll investigate the saigas.
Putting something together yourself is fun and rewarding but it sounds like this project wouldn't be worth it. What got me thinking about it was seeing those cheap unfinished receivers and drilling jigs in a catalog.
How hard could it be? right. :rolleyes:

clandestine · Aug 8, 2012

Not worth it. And a converted Saiga in a rifle caliber is not AK reliable with a screw in bullet guide either.

Scott7891 · Aug 8, 2012

There is usually a reason those building parts are so cheap and that is they are not in high demand unless someone already has been building home-built AK's for years already invested in lots of parts kits or professionals. Even professional AK builders already use 100% receivers like Nodak Spud which has become the industry standard for U.S. AK builds.

My first AK was a parts build by glade valley sporting goods. I only paid $475 for it with matching factory barrel exactly 4 years ago this month. Now you are seeing WASR's go for that price. Times have truly changed.

oldman12 · Aug 8, 2012

clandestine said:
Not worth it. And a converted Saiga in a rifle caliber is not AK reliable with a screw in bullet guide either.

I thought Sgl models were Saiga?

Scott7891 · Aug 8, 2012

oldman12 said:
I thought Sgl models were Saiga?

They are but professionally done the right way with the blessings/technical know-how from Arsenal of Bulgaria a real military AK arsenal.

Clandestine was referencimg home-builders who do their own conversions on a whim without real knowledge of what they are doing while trying to cut as many corners as possible to save money at the expense of doing it right.

Nemesis · Aug 8, 2012

oldman12 said:
I thought Sgl models were Saiga?

They rivet the bullet guide in. A screw in one is just fine with some red loctite and jb weld...that thing isint going anywhere

oldman12 · Aug 8, 2012

AAhhh, I thought but wasn't sure .I had to run upstairs and check my SGl's bullet guide. :lol2:

Im such a noob sometime. :sad20:

oldman12 · Aug 8, 2012

Nemesis said:
They rivet the bullet guide in. A screw in one is just fine with some red loctite and jb weld...that thing isint going anywhere

Now im going to check all my Ak's. :lol2:

BLACKTALON · Aug 8, 2012

get a Saiga wail you still can they are drying up again are you going 5.45 or 7.62 ? I would suggest 7.62 mags still being cheap unlike 5.45 which the ammo and mags are drying up

Scott7891 · Aug 8, 2012

BLACKTALON said:
get a Saiga wail you still can they are drying up again are you going 5.45 or 7.62 ? I would suggest 7.62 mags still being cheap unlike 5.45 which the ammo and mags are drying up

5.45 mags and surplus ammo yes (although I do forsee more ammo in the future since there are millions of rounds of it) but commercial 5.45 is still around and plentiful plus costing the same as commercial 7.62x39 prices which puts it still cheaper than brass .223.

BLACKTALON · Aug 8, 2012

I dont buy tapco or promags

DarthZed · Aug 8, 2012

smores said:
Thank you. As a gunsmith I have NEVER built an AK. It's not worth the time/investment in all the specialty tools/jigs unless I were going to be doing it for a living. There are already several quality AKs on the market so I never felt compelled to get into it... Besides the fact that it seems like everyone out there that builds them in their garages learned from the internet. And I know better than to trust random tutorials/YouTube videos. I'm not aware of Izhmash (or any other state arsenal) teaching American civilians how to build/maintain AKs. Pretty much anything you come across in terms of instructions or how-to guides will be from reverse engineering or jerry-rigging. Of course there are professional gunsmiths who have spent tons of time working on it which is good. I could never find the type of training/information needed to become a "competent" gunsmith on the AK platform. Saiga conversions are one thing, building them from the ground up is different. The same thing is true in the HK rifle/subgun world, there are a FEW legit shops, and as far as I know the only real HK armorers work for HK, at HK. Anything else is someone who used to work there or has lots of experience doing it. Not the same thing...

It's a lot like 1911 work. Sure, if you're mechanically inclined you may be able to do it, but even after spending $500-1000 on tools/jigs, are you going to be able to build a gun as nice as one you can buy from a reputable maker? Probably not.

If you have asstons of money for the tooling (spot welders aren't cheap), a home machine shop and time on your hands for such a project - go for it.

This.

erwos · Aug 8, 2012

Scott7891 said:
5.45 mags and surplus ammo yes (although I do forsee more ammo in the future since there are millions of rounds of it) but commercial 5.45 is still around and plentiful plus costing the same as commercial 7.62x39 prices which puts it still cheaper than brass .223.

This. It amazes me to see people completely panicking at the first signs of 5.45x39 surplus shortages. This isn't like 7.62x25, where no one's making it anymore[1]. Aim already posted that they had a new supplier at $20 more a tin, but thought they could do better, so are still shopping. New magazines are still being built, which means more can be imported. We get runs like this every couple years on 5.45x39, usually around elections. It's not a big deal.

Let's say 7N6 goes to 17c a round shipped... OH NOES! Steel-core .223 is running almost 50% more than that these days, never mind M855 (which is really what 7N6 should be compared to). I fully expect to get years of enjoyment from my guns in 5.45x39.

You want to stock up on something you won't be seeing much of again? Yugo M67. Wideners has it, but I doubt we'll see much more of it soon. I have several cans of it, and they are staying sealed for the forseeable future...

[1] Except the Chinese... we'd never have an ammo shortage again if we lifted the Chinese ammo ban executive order.

straightsilver3 · Aug 8, 2012

BLACKTALON said:
I dont buy tapco or promags

I have to ask Why to this Yes I read on line how people say They are junk and would not bet my life on them Well surplus mags are drying up and getting expensive Yes if you have them save them I use my pro mags for the range Fired plenty of rounds through them never an issue So if it comes down to it Would you rather have Pro mag or No mag?

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