What would you call the style of rifle/carbine, generally Cold War era, semi auto, traditional wood stock and intermediate cartridge? Examples I can think of are the sks, rasheed and the vz-52/vz-52/57. Are there any other rifles that fit this profile? I’ve grown fond of them for some reason, love my sks and vz-52 and would love to find a Rasheed.
“Transitional” carbines
- Thread starter Chazp89
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Brickman301
Ultimate Member
M1 carbine
Brickman301
Ultimate Member
Oh, how could I forget the AK
2112rws
Active Member
- Jan 18, 2013
- 163
AK's in MD?
M1 carbines I agree fit the bill but I’m meaning more along the lines of something that was adopted prior to or instead of an assault rifle, in a more traditional rifle/carbine format with a full stock. Probably even include full power options like the fn49, m1 garand, ag42, hakim, g43 and such. Looking to branch out my research and hopefully collection(someday)
What happens when AKs start to be 50 years old? They automatically become C&R so if you have a C&R license can you get one even in a state like MD? I know some early Colt ARs are now C&R.
50 year old AK would likely be Full auto and NFA. C&R means nothing there.
PLus AK Rifle is Banned in MD so does not matter for MD resident. I don't see a way around it if its not an AK Pistol or turned SBR
airbornetrooper
Active Member
M1 carbine and the others mentioned is what comes to mind. If you expanded to bolt action you could add the Spanish destroyer carbine:
http://www.9mmlargo.com/destroy/
http://www.9mmlargo.com/destroy/
I was thinking way down the road when semi-auto AKs from the 80s and early 90s (like the Mak-90) are that old. I wasn't sure how a state law affected different FFL holders. Basically could an FFL03 possess a firearm that an non FFL03 couldn't in a state like MD? I guess the answer is no.
Plenty of machine guns are already C&R. Makes no difference under Maryland law.
Besides, it'll be nearly 20 years before the first semi-auto civilian-legal AKs (early import Maadis) reach C&R age. There are already civilian Colt AR 15s much older than that, though. Makes no difference: why do you think it would?
Besides, it'll be nearly 20 years before the first semi-auto civilian-legal AKs (early import Maadis) reach C&R age. There are already civilian Colt AR 15s much older than that, though. Makes no difference: why do you think it would?
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,137
Those ARE Assault Rifles . ( Meaning the actual Mil select fire ones .)
How about FN 1949 and Ljungman AG-42 for your list?
Hakim, Rasheed, FN-49, Ljungman AG-42, MAS 49, MAS 49/56, M1 Carbine, M2 Carbine, BM-59, SKS, etc. etc.
Not all of them featured intermediate cartridges, but they were were arms that pushed most nations beyond internal-mag bolt-actions before they either developed alternatives with select fire capabilities (M2 was select fire), or adopted the FN FAL. They're a neat era of firearms from the engineering perspective even though most of them didn't see widespread use in modern conflicts as the FAL, AK, and M-16 all came along shortly thereafter to replace them.
Not all of them featured intermediate cartridges, but they were were arms that pushed most nations beyond internal-mag bolt-actions before they either developed alternatives with select fire capabilities (M2 was select fire), or adopted the FN FAL. They're a neat era of firearms from the engineering perspective even though most of them didn't see widespread use in modern conflicts as the FAL, AK, and M-16 all came along shortly thereafter to replace them.
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,137
Good bet those MAS's saw much use in Algeria and Indochina ( aka Viet Nam , round 1 ) .
Yes, they did there, but not nearly as much action as say, the SKS or M1 Carbine. They simply weren't issued as much. SKS was issued to all Soviet satellites. M1 to most US/NATO/UN allies for the bigger conflicts of that time period.
Brickman301
Ultimate Member
Didn’t mean to derail the thread when I said the AK. The OP didn't ask what was legal in Maryland. His profile doesn’t say where he lives either. Maybe he lives in free America?
Brickman301
Ultimate Member
You’re right. My father was in the Army in Vietnam, and he carried a M2 carbine in 68-69. He trained with the M-14. Once he got into combat, he traded someone for the M2, he said it was a lot nicer to carry around. Lol. I’ve asked him why didn’t he us a M-16? He said he didn’t like them back then.
My FIL preferred the M14 to his M16. Never had to actually use either of them (it was pretty quiet in the highlands at the time he was there) Said the M-16 simply felt too flimsy to him. Knew a couple of other vets that traded away for Thompsons from the ARVN guys as they did a lot of anti-VC work that meant closer quarters. I've heard stories of the early M16s snapping at the wrist when landed on wrong from guys jumping from helicopters that wouldn't touch-down fully in hot LZs rendering them useless as the buffer and spring popped out. No first-hand accounts mind you.
I've always wondered if the guys in the AEF complained about the M1 Garand when it first came into use.
Major03
Ultimate Member
Funny enough I believe there was some harumppphhhh from some senior officers and old timers who were still in the mindset that you needed to control the rate of fire of your soldiers by limiting access to ammo.
The M1903 has a magazine cutoff for that purpose. There was a time when senior leadership believed that soldiers could not be trusted not to burn through their ammo if they had unfettered access to their magazine.
That mentality carried through when the M1 was introduced, and there were some who thought the collective volume of fire the M1 would put out would be too much of a strain on the logistics train.
I don't imagine the guys at the company level and lower didn't appreciate the extra firepower.
mawkie
C&R Whisperer
The first carbine sized rifle to pop into my head was the Czech VZ52 and VZ52/57. Agree that you don't have to stretch much to get to the MAS 49/56 which is just an inch longer than the VZ52 and in the same 9 lb weight range. The MAS would be my pick all week and twice on Sunday.
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