44 Magnum

I've run into something weird about reloading 44 Mag ammo. I started using my Rossi Lever action rifle in 44 Mag. I had a bunch of cases loaded with primers so I've been using those. I loaded them up and shot some. After that I cleaned them up and started putting primers into the cases. I used some Large Pistol Magnum primers and they fit kinda loose so I checked a couple of reloading sources and they said to use Large Pistol primers.
I had put the primers in the cases I was using quite awhile ago and don't remember what primers I used. The Large Pistol primers I have are smaller than the Large Magnum primers. I put them in Starlight cases.
Anyone know what's going on here?

This might help you.

13Aug
What Are the Four Primer Sizes?

By powder-valley / 0 Comments

Primer sizes can be broken down as follows:

Small rifle primers – which are about .175 inches in diameter and .120 inches tall.
Small pistol primers – which are about the same size as small rifle primers but designed specifically for handguns.
Large rifle primers – which measure about .128 inches in height and .212 inches in width.
Large pistol primers – which are an average of .120 inches tall and.212 inches wide.

What kind of reloads are you making for your Rossi? I used a .44 Mag for years shooting pigs and deer. I have used both Marlin and Rossi rifles and have reloaded them with bullets ranging from185 gn to 310gn. If they are loose going in, that could be the result of excessive pressure.

Striper69 said:

I've run into something weird about reloading 44 Mag ammo. I started using my Rossi Lever action rifle in 44 Mag. I had a bunch of cases loaded with primers so I've been using those. I loaded them up and shot some. After that I cleaned them up and started putting primers into the cases. I used some Large Pistol Magnum primers and they fit kinda loose so I checked a couple of reloading sources and they said to use Large Pistol primers.
I had put the primers in the cases I was using quite awhile ago and don't remember what primers I used. The Large Pistol primers I have are smaller than the Large Magnum primers. I put them in Starlight cases.
Anyone know what's going on here?

Click to expand...

Your standard and magnum large pistol primers should not be any different in physical size. Have you measured different examples of these? Now the primer pockets of different examples of your brass, typically varying through usage if they're going to vary, can be another matter.

Be aware also that your load data sources will recommend standard vs. magnum primers not by cartridge, but rather in combination with individual powders. With some common powders in 44mag, like 2400 and faster burning examples, standard primers are appropriate. With other powders, typically your harder to ignite slower ball powders like H110/W296, magnum primers will be specified.

some reading

https://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0


-Rock

Uncle Duke said:

Your standard and magnum large pistol primers should not be any different in physical size. Have you measured different examples of these? Now the primer pockets of different examples of your brass, typically varying through usage if they're going to vary, can be another matter.

Be aware also that your load data sources will recommend standard vs. magnum primers not by cartridge, but rather in combination with individual powders. With some common powders in 44mag, like 2400 and faster burning examples, standard primers are appropriate. With other powders, typically your harder to ignite slower ball powders like H110/W296, magnum primers will be specified.

Click to expand...

I'm going by the Hornady manual. I'll compare some other used cases to see if the holes are smaller in them. I did use the max load with 800X powder.

800X is a pretty fast powder for 44 Mag power loads. Hogdon limits it to 13.4 grains with a 240gn cast bullet. At that load, it is pushing 39,600 CUP which is higher pressure than H110 at its highest loading which only gives 36,200. It would not be hard to overcharge using 800X. 240 is the heaviest bullet Hogdon recommends with that powder.

John from MD said:

800X is a pretty fast powder for 44 Mag power loads. Hogdon limits it to 13.4 grains with a 240gn cast bullet. At that load, it is pushing 39,600 CUP which is higher pressure than H110 at its highest loading which only gives 36,200. It would not be hard to overcharge using 800X. 240 is the heaviest bullet Hogdon recommends with that powder.

Click to expand...

800X also meters for sheeet. I've recorded over 10% variations in powder drops with the bulky 800x so unless you handweighed each round, you could easily get an over-pressure charge on a max load 800X drop.

OP, here's a tool that may interest you. Measuring primer pockets is tedious, and typically doesn't happen. When it does happen, it oftentimes happens "by feel", where a problem case becomes obvious after one has seated a primer that obviously felt far too loose.

This tool is essentially a very quick and easy go/no go type gauge. If you can succeed in inserting the no go end into a primer pocket, there's too much slop in that primer pocket, and the case is unsafe and should be discarded.

Just by way of mention, loose primer pockets are a very typical type of case failure. They're also one reason amongst others regarding why I like to separate brass by lots, and keep track of the number of firings. With that information in hand, it's a way to know amongst other things, when a particular lot of brass might need some extra careful scrutiny, as it is known to be getting a bit "long in the tooth".

https://ballistictools.com/store/small-and-large-primer-pocket-gauges

Rockzilla said:

some reading

https://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0


-Rock

Click to expand...

Good link..thanks

Some time back I was being gifted some 45/70 Buffalo bore cases from a bud that no longer had a 45/70. His intentions were to start reloading but never did. I noticed that the primer pockets were small not large rifle primers. My bud had no clue as he was gifted them. I contacted Buffalo bore and asked why were the 45/70 primers pockets were small. They stated that their 45/70 ammo with small primers was to avoid magazine tube explosions in the Marlin 1895. I had never heard of an issue with any tube fed 45/70 rifles. I took the cases off my bud and gave them to a guy that shoots cowboy action he said they work fine with small primers.

What I am getting at manufacturers of cases, primers and powders may throw you for a loop and they may not produce what you may be use to. Another example is; the Initial run of 500 S&W Mag (R) cases was built to use large pistol primer per Smith & Wesson and Cor-bon specifications. On July 28, 2003, Smith & Wesson and Cor-bon changed specification of primer pocket to be large rifle. Rifle primers are same diameter as pistol except they are approximately .006" taller. This was done to prevent primer from being pierced by firing pin when loaded with max loads and heavy bullets (bullets over 400 grains). It was determined that hole in primer allowed pressure to damage firing pin and bushing, kind of like a cutting torch and the harder cup of a rifle primer will prevent occurrence. All cases sold by Starline, Inc. after July 28, 2003, will contain a large rifle primer pocket to accept a large rifle primer. Hodgdon Powder has generated load data which recommends using Win. Large Rifle Primers.

Cor-bon has also tested and recommends CCI 250 primers (Magnum Large Rifle). The new cases will have an "R" after the "Mag" on head stamp to signify rifle pocket. If you have previously purchased 500 cases without "R" on head stamp and wish to modify, you can use a large rifle pocket uniformed to deepen primer pocket to accept large rifle primers by deepening pocket approximately .006". This will not affect integrity of case. For concerns regarding situation contact Smith & Wesson or Cor-bon as they designed case and subsequently changed it.

You have to be real savvy when reloading, keep up on the latest manufacturer specifications. I also, buy the latest loading manuals and and go on line as things do change.

Wow, that's pretty strange!

just for fun lets assume the pockets are stretched due to pressure and/or wear. Is there an option to crimp the primers a la military rounds and snug them back up? I have a swage designed to open up crimped primers . However i've never seen a crimper on hobby reloading equipment sites. oes such a tool exist and would it be safe to use on previously reloaded brass?

ras_oscar said:

just for fun lets assume the pockets are stretched due to pressure and/or wear. Is there an option to crimp the primers a la military rounds and snug them back up? I have a swage designed to open up crimped primers . However i've never seen a crimper on hobby reloading equipment sites. oes such a tool exist and would it be safe to use on previously reloaded brass?

Click to expand...

A primer pocket crimper for reloaders? Not that I'm aware of, but that certainly doesn't mean that one doesn't exist somewhere. I did however read of a guy who does try to tighten slightly oversized primer pockets.

I've never tried this, and likely never will. But, here's the mention with a video.

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/tighten-primer-pockets-heres-how.152361/

I’d use JB weld or purple Loctite.

I've superglue primers in for one last firing on some lapua 223 brass i trashed in a hurry. Not a great idea but I worked

The are products that size the entire cartridge and can tighten primer pockets.

Probably not worth for most people.

Here is one - https://www.rollsizer.com/