Training gear set up help needed...

sixfivesavage · Jun 28, 2012

Long story short, I sold my complete battle belt a few weeks ago. I had it set up how I wanted and planned on using it for taking serious training courses for carbine and pistol and shotgun. With my current employment, I was not able to come up with the free time to take any classes. Now with a new career in front of me and a whole lot more me time coming, I'm planning on making these classes happen. Part of the reason I sold the rig is because I believe in training as you would actually be in the world. In a real life scenario, I'm not gonna have a bunch of spare mags, a dump bag, IFAK kit and a drop leg on. So I know how I'm gonna run my first line gear on a regular ares gear belt. The question I have is this...for the classes where I need to be able to carry extra pmags and what not, I'm thinking of moving to a plate carrier for the IFAK and spares. Originally I was thinking chest rig since it can still be concealed if needed, but in real life, if I were to need to be toting around an AR or shotty, there is no more need for concealment so I kinda like the extra protection of the carrier. I know it's expensive and heavy but it just makes more sense to me. Now the questions...

1 am I crazy for thinking this way?
2 plates are legal in md right?
3 anyone who has plates care to give me some guidance on any of it?

The other thing I like is that when I'm at one of these classes with a bunch of people I don't know, it's gives me a little security.

Indiana Jones · Jun 28, 2012

Plates are legal. I have a Condor quick release plate carrier. Excellent quality for the price. I recommend it. An industry partner Bri-Bet sells them.

sixfivesavage · Jun 28, 2012

What can you tell me about your plates? Where'd ya get them and what brand and size? I'm looking at the PIG carrier real hard at skd tac.

WARPIG [USMC] · Jun 28, 2012

sixfivesavage said:
What can you tell me about your plates? Where'd ya get them and what brand and size? I'm looking at the PIG carrier real hard at skd tac.

SKD is awesome, highly recommended. The PIG will be much better quality than Condor brand stuff (a little more TLC when it's made, better attention to detail).

Another option would be to get a "slick" plate carrier and throw a chest rig over that if you want more versatility. Or check out the Eagle Industries RRV.

Indiana Jones · Jun 28, 2012

WARPIG [USMC];1721739 said:
SKD is awesome, highly recommended. The PIG will be much better quality than Condor brand stuff (a little more TLC when it's made, better attention to detail).

Another option would be to get a "slick" plate carrier and throw a chest rig over that if you want more versatility. Or check out the Eagle Industries RRV.

Does PIG make the CIRAS vest? Those are sweet.

WARPIG [USMC] · Jun 28, 2012

Indiana Jones said:
Does PIG make the CIRAS vest? Those are sweet.

Negative, that's Eagle Industries as well, and those are really expensive.

sixfivesavage · Jun 28, 2012

Anyone know the best way to size plates and other places than skd to look for them?

virtus · Jun 28, 2012

Tag

Interested in the info for later

randomjoe · Jun 28, 2012

Plates are sized like shirts, small, medium, large, etc. Ceramic armor is designed to protect the critical center mass are, i.e. from your sternal notch down to mid abdomen, taking into account lung/heart/aorta/etc. The standard size plate (size large SAPI plate) is a 10" wide by 12" tall. ESAPI (the green ones on ebay and the like) are larger, being 11" wide by 14" tall.

WARPIG [USMC] · Jun 29, 2012

sixfivesavage said:
Anyone know the best way to size plates and other places than skd to look for them?

Try OPTactical.com or TriadTactical.com if you dont find anything you like on SKD (which would be my first choice for a number of reasons)...and I agree with below:

randomjoe said:
Plates are sized like shirts, small, medium, large, etc. Ceramic armor is designed to protect the critical center mass are, i.e. from your sternal notch down to mid abdomen, taking into account lung/heart/aorta/etc. The standard size plate (size large SAPI plate) is a 10" wide by 12" tall. ESAPI (the green ones on ebay and the like) are larger, being 11" wide by 14" tall.

3rdRcn · Jun 29, 2012

I opted for Mayflower research armor carrier for a few reasons:
1. it has adjustable plate pockets so that you can keep the plate from bouncing around.
2. It has pockets for full wrap soft armor, not just soft armor behind the plates.
3. It has a cummerbund so that I can adjust it as tight or loose as necessary for what I am doing, keeps the vest from moving around.
4. Plenty of molle on the front, back and sides.
5. Has pockets in cummerbund for putting side armor in.

It is a little pricey but is quality kit.

http://store.greygrouptraining.com/LOW-PRO-ASSAULT-CARRIER.html

Dave MP · Jun 29, 2012

Anyone have experience or insight with US Palm?

soup101 · Jun 29, 2012

Training gear setup is a never ending exercise and there isn't a "one size fits all". I am a law abiding civilian who takes my training, and kit to support my training, very seriously. With that said, I will detail what works for me and why as well as some other things to think about.

When I attend Carbine Classes I run a battle belt and a lightweight chest rig. I did a write-up of these HERE.

I have a BFG-LMAC setup with hard and soft armor. I really like the modularity of the LMAC. You can tailor it to just about any need you may have. Mine is setup very lightweight with mag pouches on the front that closely mimic my chest rig that I train in. I generally will not run a PC in a Carbine Class unless it’s required.

While I understand your desire to “train as you would be fighting” and agree it’s a fairly good philosophy. I feel for me that if I were to run my PC during training that didn’t require it; I would not be getting the full value of the class. Unless you run a PC everyday or are in tip top shape your body is going to be really pissed off at you for adding that extra weight. At some point your body will fatigue and your mind will stop absorbing information that you are paying for. Just imagine attending a class and wearing a PC this weekend with the temps around 100, it’s hard enough to focus in that weather without the added weight.

This is what works for me YMMV.

sixfivesavage · Jun 29, 2012

I understand what you're saying. That's something to consider as well in making my decision.

Guderian · Jun 29, 2012

I agree with "train as you fight" and I don't want to look or become like a mall ninja, but I've recently come to the conclusion that certain "mall ninja" gear may make your training day better, kind of like what Soup might have been alluding to, because the gear (if setup well) allows you to focus on learning new skills.

As a civvy, I don't "train" everday, as in go to training courses. For the rare times I do, I am considering getting battle belts, dump pouches, and etc., because I think it will make the admin stuff easier and allow me to focus more on the instructor and learning. After the 1-2 day class is over, I will then use what I learned to PRACTICE, and I will practice as I would fight.

So for me, I guess what I'm saying is, for a civvy, train as you fight means practice as you fight. And for when you are attending training classes, get the gear that will allow you to focus on learning the most instead of dealing with admin issues, like reloading, mags, etc. so that you are "up" most of the time. You are paying for the class by the minute so take every advantage of it.

Engage Instructor · Jun 29, 2012

There is a push and a shove to everything. Yes wearing a plate carrier is EXTREMELY uncomfortable in hot weather (especially in bananastan in 120 degree plus weather) but the benefits are numerous. Everything is right wear you need it! When I ran my PC, I had my mags, IFAK, 1911 and misc other mission essentials strapped on there so when a tic kicked off I threw it on and proceeded to deal with what ever. When you run a slick plate carrier (no molle webbing) with a chest rig over it is alot easier to switch out load variants for different missions or different weapon systems. This is nice for when your running around the FOB doing odds and ends then throwing a rig when the situation calls for it. For the regular harry home owner, if you are running a concealed vest then it would be easy to throw a chest rig over the existing clothing and deal with what you have to deal with. In my experience it is always better to have different kit for every level of threat you can REASONABLY imagine. Yes gear can be expensive but how much is your life worth? Hope this helped, I know Im not the only gear queer that has ever come out of the service!

sixfivesavage · Jun 29, 2012

What I'm thinking is two pistol mags, a rifle mag and pistol on my belt as if I were cc'ing. The pc would carry spare mags for both weapons, an IFAK and maybe a second flashlight. Possibly a dump bag. Kinda minimalist really.

3rdRcn · Jun 29, 2012

Always remember that when the crap hits the fan you will never rise to the occasion, you will always fall back on your training. If you have kit and never train with it then I hope you never have to use it because your lack of training, no matter how uncomfortable, may just cost you your life or someone you love's life.

I train with every piece of kit I have and do so at every opportunity. I have only the kit I find would be essential or necessary to fight with. That selection of kit is very much determined by how long you want to be capable of fighting, what you want to fight with and where you might be fighting at. I have purchased a lot of gear over the years and some of it only gets used one time because I discovered that it was just cool looking and not very functional.

Think about what you want and what would be practical from both a weight standpoint as well as from a durability and usability standpoint. Don't waste your money on stuff you won't use or will be too heavy to be practical. If you plan on taking classes and having your kit on for long hours at a time then make sure you buy stuff that is comfortable to wear.

Current kit: battle belt and plate carrier, I wear the battle belt every time train and wear the PC whenever appropriate.

randomjoe · Jun 29, 2012

Before you run out and buy plates, do a little research.

FIRST: not all plates are created equal. You have ceramic, polythylene, steel, etc with each having pro's and con's.

SECOND: stand alone of inconjunction? Stand alone plates mean that they are the complete armor system themselves and don't require soft armor to be effective. Inconjunction plates require a level IIIA soft armor backing, otherwise the plates can crack/spall and the spalling can cause injury.

THIRD: what is your threat? You can build a layered armor system around you threat, increasing as needed. As an example, most homeowners would be just fine with a level II or IIIA soft vest with their weapon of choice, reload, cell phone and flashlight. It is one stop shopping for the "things go bump in the night" situation. Once you've got this, you can begin to build up. Want a plate carrier? Go for it, as it can be worn over the soft vest. Want a chest rig? It can fit over the vest.

FWIW when I worked patrol I always had a soft vest on under my uniform. This meant I could run a slick plate carrier with in-conjunction plates as my vest became the plate backers. Also, my gunbelt had all my tools. When I came of patrol I upgraded my palte carrier to include soft armor backer, soft armor cumberbund w/ plates and several pouches including rifle/pistol mags, IFAK, etc.

Blaster229 · Jun 30, 2012

I guess everyone is gonna say London Bridge is too expensive.

Training gear set up help needed...

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