Three days with Ed Shell...

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  • virtus

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 11, 2010
    1,493
    Speed3, sending you a pm.
     

    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,245
    Mid-Merlind
    Thank you for your review and comments Wingnut! And thanks to the rest of you for your kind words!:o
    What is the cost?
    Costs vary with number of students and what we do, hit me with an e-mail or PM and we can discuss your specific requirements.
    Minimum caliber requirement (if that even makes sense). I assume 308 and 300WM would be fine? .243?
    The rifle/optic/ammo needs to be capable of consistently shooting groups of less than 1" at 100 yards. Too much error makes it impossible to be precise enough to learn anything.

    There are many calibers that can be applied at long range with varying degrees of success. As James mentions above, we can shoot small calibers like a .223 to surprisingly long distances but it's not optimum. The 6.5 Grendel is fine with good ammo and runs very close to a .308 in trajectory and wind deflection depending on ammo selection. A .243 set up to shoot heavy (>105) boat tail match bullets is quite functional and I have my daughter shooting a fast twist (1:7.5) .243 and 105 Scenars at about 2,950. A .243 like this actually outperforms a .308 at 1k and she shoots hers to good effect to 1,200 or so. A 'standard' .243 varmint rifle will be set up for lightweight varmint style bullets and the rifling twist is typically too slow to stabilize the long heavy bullets needed to shoot longer distances.

    Ammunition/caliber must be capable of stable, accurate flight to beyond 1,000 yards for the basic long range training. .308s are commonly used, and a .300 WinMag is fine too. A .308 is a better learning tool, since it deflects more than the .300 WinMag and other more effective calibers, but I can always make the targets smaller to keep us on our toes.

    My current target sizes are 'calibrated' to .308-class ballistics so we need to get our wind calls right within about 2/3 MPH at 1k to stay on the plate, but I can set targets more appropriate to the caliber. :evilgrin3
    How much ammo did you go through?
    Round counts vary greatly. Two or three people shooting together will use less ammo than a single student. More experienced shooters will be smoother at handling things, thus maintain a quicker pace and we'll burn more ammo. This time, things went smoothly and we wasted very little ammo tinkering around, plus wind conditions were pretty ugly and we spent much more time in wind analysis than actually sending bullets. Sometimes, we will have to troubleshoot gear or shooter problems and we can burn a greater amount of ammo getting things straightened out. I recommend bringing 100 rounds per day and that way we are always prepared for the best or worst.
    Sounds like a great time. You can't beat mixing fun with learning.
    This is where the ham dogs really come in handy. :thumbsup:
    How many shooters is he willing to put up with in one day?
    Shooter numbers depend on what we are doing. The long range stuff is best worked on one-on-one, in pairs or three person teams. I have professional/business accounts that need to send 4-6 at a time and we can accommodate this, but I really prefer to keep it smaller.

    Thanks guys!
     

    Silverlode

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 16, 2010
    4,797
    Frederick
    A .243 set up to shoot heavy (>105) boat tail match bullets is quite functional and I have my daughter shooting a fast twist (1:7.5) .243 and 105 Scenars at about 2,950. A .243 like this actually outperforms a .308 at 1k and she shoots hers to good effect to 1,200 or so. A 'standard' .243 varmint rifle will be set up for lightweight varmint style bullets and the rifling twist is typically too slow to stabilize the long heavy bullets needed to shoot longer distances.

    What is the heaviest .243 bullet one could expect to get decent long distance accuracy with coming out of a 1:9 twist barrel?

    Thanks
     

    JamesBailey

    Form Factor'ed!
    Jan 28, 2010
    873
    Arlington VA
    What is the heaviest .243 bullet one could expect to get decent long distance accuracy with coming out of a 1:9 twist barrel?

    Thanks

    well, that depends on MV and somewhat on environment. But the 105gr class is about 1.2+" long and even if you push it at 3000fps, your stability factor is only 1.2, marginal at best. Berger has an excellent 95gr VLD that is only 1.150" long, yielding a 1.48 from that 9 twist. A 95gr VLD doing 3000 will outperform just about any 308 Winchester load at 1000, so its a very competitive option.
     

    NattyBoh

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 29, 2010
    2,030
    311l1jo.jpg


    wmkvhi.jpg


    29oiuiv.jpg


    2reoajq.jpg


    8zl5kx.jpg
     

    NattyBoh

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 29, 2010
    2,030
    lol yes it was. You sure you were there ? hahah There was 6 targets going up the right side there. No wonder why you couldnt hit it......





    umad?

    358wai1.jpg
     

    NattyBoh

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 29, 2010
    2,030
    here is another shot.. If that is the 1000yd target thennn where did it go?? Uh ohh.. Clearly you can see "my rendition" of where the target is, and yours... Just sayin'

    106lrnn.jpg
     

    Wingnut

    Member me?
    Sep 29, 2010
    364
    Easton, MD
    lol yes it was. You sure you were there ? hahah There was 6 targets going up the right side there. No wonder why you couldnt hit it......





    umad?

    358wai1.jpg

    Hey numnuts, the target you circled in red was third down from the top, at 800 yards. It was the last torso before the two rectangles under the topmost line of trees. You can shoot but you sure don't take very good notes LOLWUT.
     

    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,245
    Mid-Merlind
    I try my best to stay out of domestic squabbles, but feel the need to intervene here. :facepalm:

    The object on the wood line to the left of the central group of trees is a silver painted steel gate that reflects the sun in some pics and disappears in the shade in other pics. The target in front of the small grove of trees is just beyond 1,000 yards.

    Thank you for posting the pics, NattyBoh! :party29:
     

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