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Old February 1st, 2019, 12:51 AM #1
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No-Knock Warrrant leads to dead Gun owners

https://reason.com/blog/2019/01/31/n...y-houston-drug

The more this goes on the more it sounds like this couple died fighting off a home invasion rather than resisting arrest by the police. A no-knock raid by plain-clothes officers, suspects with clean records, inconsistent details in the police accounts, and all they nabbed were some hillbilly guns and some weed.

And to add insult to injury the police commissioner is going to go on TV and suggest they're spying on those criticizing police and turned this into a spiel about gun violence and why we need gun control.

THIS and not home invaders are the biggest threats to defending oneself today.

Does anyone have a good answer to training for this? If I have but a few seconds to identify a threat and am concerned with protecting my wife and/or family from guys barging through the front door and now not even uniformed, how am I not going to end up in a body bag?

Take a look at your front door right now. And if a group of guys busted your door open with a hooligan tool and your firearm was an arms length away...how many of you at the very least would have the composure or even the state of mind to NOT grab your gun and identify if they were police in a split second, because that's all you have, bad guys or not?

Even if all you do is reach for it and don't point it, God knows your body will very quickly exceed EPA acceptable lead limits. There have been quite a few recorded incidents of police entering wrong homes, getting door numbers wrong, etc.

This is the scenario that keeps me up at night.
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Old February 1st, 2019, 01:09 AM #2
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Ask yourself this what would any reasonable person do if plain clothed thugs busted into their home unannounced and immediately shot their beloved dog? Citizens have a right to defend themselves that isn't a right that's only reserved for police officers and the political elite / famous. Family and friends are fighting the narrative that they were Black Tar Heroin dealers. It sounds like this Disabled Vet was anything but that! They didn't find any heroin only a small amount of Marijuana. I find it shameful that Houston PD is trying to cover up this bungled raid and then smear a good couple that were defending their home and property! Houston PD should admit their mistake. They got bad information and the wrong house! The police chief Art Acevedo even stated the wrong address several times and then had to correct himself after reporters pointed it out to him that it wasn't the address of this couple! Sounds like they effed up big time! Then the comments about going after people on social media that are critical of law enforcement what a cluster F@#K! I let them know how I feel on their Facebook page! They can't murder us all!
"Three can keep a secret if two are dead,"

I'd recommend taking Clint Smiths advice and training! It will come in handy when you need it most!





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Old February 1st, 2019, 01:13 AM #3
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No knock warrants should not be allowed unless suspects are suspected of violent crime and/or murder. Information of a gun in the house should not be enough to allow no knock or even quick knock warrants and unless there is reasonable suspicion for immediate bodily harm or murder under no other circumstances should plain clothes officers be executing raids.
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Old February 1st, 2019, 01:15 AM #4
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Good example of why I can never be a cop, I have no desire whatsoever to enforce so many senselees, unjust laws and destroy people's lives over such bullshit.
Just more victims of our failed war on drugs. And the insanity will continue.


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The Chicago police department said the best way to defend yourself from a violent attacker is to vomit on yourself. I think flinging poo could work a little better. But NOTHING beats flinging LEAD!
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Old February 1st, 2019, 01:37 AM #5
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could they have gotten neighbors out of their homes, surrounded he house and got on a bullhorn and asked the owner to come out? sure, but that would only have made them look like A$$holes when they did not find a kingpin inside.

I have read as much as I could in the time that I had on the criminal act that happened at that house. The only thing I saw that was criminal was what happened to the homeowners. The fact that they are not being heavily investigated and held to the same standard as a citizen is scary. "ooops, sorry, wrong house, sorry you died" or "sorry you died, bad intel" is not an excuse.



a decade ago, this would not have made it out, but news travels fast in the information age. The only question is how do our masters use that news traveling against us Do they change how they operate or do they change our ability to talk about it afterward?

Plain clothes no knock warrant shooting off rounds before a homeowner wakes up imo will lead down a path nobody wants to go. I have no idea why they use them as often as they do.

The more the person on the inside realizes that the odds are against them (in the event that its an actual criminal) or that they are not actually a criminal the less likely there are of shots fired. The end goal should be to have no shots fired. Plain clothes looks like a home invader. It's drop dead simple.

Perhaps the police who knew that was gong to happen would have set up video before hand to show they were doing the right thing the entire time and worn body cameras. Let's just review the footage. Once we review their footage it should put this all to rest right?
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Old February 1st, 2019, 09:53 AM #6
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And I hate the excuse "police safety." When I speak to my friends who are cops they understand the inherent risk in becoming one. SWAT is a VOLUNTEER opportunity, so sorry my safety is more important than yours. If you don't like it get a desk job.

Loggers, factory workers, garbage men are much more at risk in being hurt or killed on the job than a police officer and there is no mass appeal to make their jobs safer, simply "comes with the territory."
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Old February 1st, 2019, 10:02 AM #7
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Sounds like they based their reason for the warrant on the word of the informant.
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Old February 1st, 2019, 10:14 AM #8
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This goes back really to the poor and obviously unverified "intelligence", the Chief, the prosecutor, and the judge. I'm not a fan of unmarked raids and one should always announce they are the Sheriff's Office, FBI, Secret Service, Police or what ever. "No knock" raids should be used only in the case where there is immediate danger to the public. I haven't seen the stats on these, but I image these incidents are the exception and not the rule.
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Old February 1st, 2019, 10:22 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexDefender View Post
This goes back really to the poor and obviously unverified "intelligence", the Chief, the prosecutor, and the judge. I'm not a fan of unmarked raids and one should always announce they are the Sheriff's Office, FBI, Secret Service, Police or what ever. "No knock" raids should be used only in the case where there is immediate danger to the public. I haven't seen the stats on these, but I image these incidents are the exception and not the rule.
According to vox over 20k no knock warrants a year back in 2015:

https://www.vox.com/2014/10/29/70833...ous-work-drugs
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Old February 1st, 2019, 11:04 AM #10
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If you no knock a house that has a dog inside what are the odds that you won’t have to shoot it?
Once a shot is fired (by either side) all bets are off.
Go take the guy down on trash day when he’s rolling the can to the street.
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His name is Jesus Christ, and the change He brings to a personís heart is the ultimate cure for the violence and wickedness that surrounds us." Jim Daly
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