No.4 Mk.1 "Trials" Rifle

Cruacious · Oct 26, 2019

I recently acquired this rifle for a nice chunk of change but I regret literally nothing. This is a 1944 No.4 Mk.1 "Trials" rifle converted by factory to "T" standard to accept a No.32 Mk.2 scope and mount. The wood on the end is a cheek riser that helps the shooter line up with the scope when it is installed. I'm thinking of getting a reproduction scope and mount for now as this rifle was not cheap and by god an original scope would kill my bank account now.

Mirror bright bore and barrel, pristine bolt, perfect two-stage trigger with the cleanest break of every rifle I own, and a micro-meter marksman's flip-up rear sight. Even if it did not have a scope, it is every bit of a perfect rifle to hold and own. One of my dream rifles soon to be set and ready for the range. I almost feel bad for wanting to shoot it. Almost.

Pictures:

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Oct 26, 2019

Congrats! A quality rifle with real history...nothing to apologize for.

303_enfield · Oct 26, 2019

NOT a trails rifle. I hope you didn't pay Trails rifle prices!.I suggest you read "An Armourer's Perspective: .303 No. 4 (T) Sniper Rifle and the Holland & Holland connection By Peter Laidler
Or any of the Lee-Enfield Story books by Ian Skennerton

SKIP · Oct 26, 2019

Don't forget to purchase the special tool used to adjust the scope.

Cruacious · Oct 26, 2019

303_enfield said:
NOT a trails rifle. I hope you didn't pay Trails rifle prices!.I suggest you read "An Armourer's Perspective: .303 No. 4 (T) Sniper Rifle and the Holland & Holland connection By Peter Laidler
Or any of the Lee-Enfield Story books by Ian Skennerton

I paid a solid 1,100 by the time I got it. It has a TR stamp which I noted was correct for BSA rifles converted to Sniper standard. Also it was listed as a trials rifle. Mawkie was the one who found this and pointed me to it.

303_enfield · Oct 26, 2019

Left wrist what I read:

M47C rifle made by BSA Shirley
1944 year of production
ENGLAND indicates supplied to a foreign government.
C37787 serial one of the 6,262 T's made in '44
TR designation marks indicating the (T) conversion

"If" the rifle ever had a scope fitted to it the number will on top of the butt stock . If the original stock is removed you'll see the rifle number an then the telescope number.

For a rifle that was loaned/sold to a foreign gov. It is in excellent condition. One of my Jewish T's was rebuilt ten times an the scope twenty.

Capt Laidler can be found on the Enfield forums. He still rebuilds scopes an has a list of all the T's that came to his shops.

Cruacious · Oct 26, 2019

303_enfield said:
Left wrist what I read:

M47C rifle made by BSA Shirley
1944 year of production
ENGLAND indicates supplied to a foreign government.
C37787 serial one of the 6,262 T's made in '44
TR designation marks indicating the (T) conversion

"If" the rifle ever had a scope fitted to it the number will on top of the butt stock . If the original stock is removed you'll see the rifle number an then the telescope number.

For a rifle that was loaned/sold to a foreign gov. It is in excellent condition. One of my Jewish T's was rebuilt ten times an the scope twenty.

Capt Laidler can be found on the Enfield forums. He still rebuilds scopes an has a list of all the T's that came to his shops.

Good to know. I'll also see if he has a spare No.32 Mk.2 scope (which I presume is correct for this rifle) and mount I can pair the rifle with, along with recommended tools. I've heard the original scopes are what you want to use as the reproductions are not nearly the same quality.

303_enfield · Oct 26, 2019

Cruacious said:
I paid a solid 1,100 by the time I got it. It has a TR stamp which I noted was correct for BSA rifles converted to Sniper standard. Also it was listed as a trials rifle. Mawkie was the one who found this and pointed me to it.

An he is wrong. Read the books an talk/write to some real British Armourers.

303_enfield · Oct 26, 2019

Cruacious said:
Good to know. I'll also see if he has a spare No.32 Mk.2 scope (which I presume is correct for this rifle) and mount I can pair the rifle with, along with recommended tools. I've heard the original scopes are what you want to use as the reproductions are not nearly the same quality.

Oct '44 the Mk 3 telescope was introduced.
Scope mounts need to be fitted. Dr. Roger Paine at one time was making 100% copies of the telescope bracket. I had an Indian repro from Gun Parts inc ten years ago. The metal was soft. Fitting it involved adding more metal in the front pad an just stoning the rear.

Brain Dick at BDL LTD wrenches on them an is the exporter to Laidler for scope work.

Join here an learn:
https://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72

Good luck!

Cruacious · Oct 26, 2019

Thanks! Getting a scope on her is my ultimate goal, as I wanted to get into the Telescopic Rifle series of Enfields. Besides not being a trials rifle like the listing stated, it's an excellent condition rifle that has the basic set-up for to accept a scope. Seeing as a Mk.3 scope could be (and probably is) the correct model to use, it's definitely worth pursuing.

Doco Overboard · Oct 26, 2019

303_enfield said:
An he is wrong. Read the books an talk/write to some real British Armourers.

Capt Laidler is a real armorer. About as real as you can get.

j8064 · Oct 26, 2019

Nice! You're gonna like shooting that Enfield. :thumbsup:

I picked up an unissued No. 4 MK 2 ~ 25 years ago. It's accuracy has never ceased to make me smile.

My bet is yours will do even better than mine.

Looking forward to a range report!

mawkie · Oct 27, 2019

The goal was to find a proper No4T as the basis to eventually add a correct No32 scope and I'm thrilled that Cruacious got it! No, not an ex-trials rifle but a solid example of a wartime built No4T. We both searched through a fair number of examples before settling on this one. Wish I had saved a couple of photos of one faked No4T that we ran across in the process. Thank God the humper didn't know jack sh*t about the correct markings, made it easy to run away from! I expect we'll see this more often in the future as No4T rigs are selling for 5-6 times the $800 they commanded in the 80s when Navy Arms imported a batch of them. In the end this one is much nicer than my ex-Indian issue No4T which is a VG shooter.
Cruacious has no illusions about the fact that it'll be difficult and expensive to find an original No32 but they are out there and can be found. It'll just take time, diligence and some luck. But I'll continue helping in the search. I respect the fact that he acknowledges the work that'll go into building a proper No4T rig. In the meantime he can enjoy shooting it using the Singer sight (less the battle sight aperture, which is correct for the No4T).
For those interested in the No1 Mk VI troop trials rifle I'll be posting something very interesting later on this week, assuming it doesn't get lost/destroyed in transit (Cruacious, remember me mentioning I was working on a new acquisition that was going to tie up funds? Got it!).

Doco Overboard · Oct 27, 2019

A step by step of getting the pads and telescope fitted to this rifle would be great to follow along with on a firearms site.
It’s intriguing when you think about the individual work and knowledge that went into these old rifles alone.
Just drilling for the rear pad so close to the locking lug recess could be a chore in of itself.

Art3 · Oct 27, 2019

If you can get to a range this week to verify that the existing sights work, it would probably do just fine here, even without the scope: https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=239290 :innocent0

Jiberwocky · Oct 30, 2019

It's beautiful! I've been slowly trying to build a low-budget mockup -T sniper based on a No.4 Mk1 sporter I got for 200 bucks, because I like the looks, but oh wow the real thing is so gorgeous.

Doco Overboard · Oct 31, 2019

This rifle with the TR marks stamped into the wrist socket indicates it was selected for being turned over to H&H for becoming a T rifle after meeting certain criteria. Once the conversion was completed and a telescope fitted it would have been stamped with a serif T right in front of the ejector screw.
I was able to observe T rifle R33857 which has a later letter prefix indicating manufacture towards the end of 1944 and lower serial # and this specimen has a early year prefix which appears to be a C with a serial# some 30,000 numbers higher and a virtually unblemished birch stock.
Additional detailed pictures could only convince me of the authenticity of this rifle as being a "T" unless the conversion process somehow allowed the rifle to be serialized at a different time and the additional T by the ejector screw omitted or the rifle has been built up from carefully selected main components beginning with the stock and maybe even the action body which could be a Maltby.
Im not saying this is the absolute final word its still a very nice rifle, I just cannot be absolutely convinced its entirely authentic.

No.4 Mk.1 "Trials" Rifle

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