Yugo SKS C&R status and shipping to Maryland

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  • s34n

    Member
    Feb 4, 2013
    12
    Hi All,
    I recently acquired my 03 FFL. I have bid and won an auction on GunBroker for an all original, unaltered Yugoslavian SKS (semi-auto, folding bayonet, grenade launcher, 10 round fixed mag, fixed stock) I did some research here and the MDSP website and am almost certain I can obtain this rifle with my C&R license. The sellers auction stated he "Will ship to 03 ffl in most places", I assumed he was excluding CA, NY, NJ like most sellers. However when he noticed my MD address, he sent an email stating that he had to ship to 01 FFL. I went to the trouble of getting my C&R so I could avoid transfer fees, so this is a bummer.
    My question is, could there be a legitimate reason it has to go through an 01FFL? The seller is in Mississippi if that makes a difference.
    Thanks for any insight.
     

    Bertfish

    Throw bread on me
    Mar 13, 2013
    17,606
    White Marsh, MD
    No reason not to ship it to an 03FFL in Maryland, the seller just doesn't know the laws of the People's Republic and is probably erring on the side of caution.
     

    Drmsparks

    Old School Rifleman
    Jun 26, 2007
    8,441
    PG county
    let him know that it is legal to ship to a md 03.

    Show him the list of what it forbidden and that the SKS is not on that list.

    If he still refuses to ship to you you can do one of two things (I would not recommend arguing further)

    1. ship to an 01
    2. Walk away. If he won't ship to a legal recipient that's on him not you.
     

    s34n

    Member
    Feb 4, 2013
    12
    No reason not to ship it to an 03FFL in Maryland, the seller just doesn't know the laws of the People's Republic and is probably erring on the side of caution.

    Yeah, that is what I suspected also, however it's hard to fault someone out of state for not wanting to take a chance trying to figure out our confusing mess.
     

    s34n

    Member
    Feb 4, 2013
    12
    let him know that it is legal to ship to a md 03.

    Show him the list of what it forbidden and that the SKS is not on that list.

    If he still refuses to ship to you you can do one of two things (I would not recommend arguing further)

    1. ship to an 01
    2. Walk away. If he won't ship to a legal recipient that's on him not you.

    Thanks, I did send the seller a reply with links to the MDSP list and guidelines for banned firearms, but haven't heard back as of yet. I really don't want to go 01 FFL, that's exactly why I got the license. If I can't convince him it's O.K., hopefully he will cancel the sale without any issues. There are plenty more of these rifles for sale.
     

    yellowsled

    Retired C&R Addict
    Jun 22, 2009
    9,348
    Palm Beach, Fl
    Any and all SKS's with the fixed 10rd mag is LEGAL in MD. Zero issues with having it sent to you provied it is not a modern chinese one.
     
    Last edited:

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    As just said, any SKS in stock configuration is good to go here for direct shipping to an 03 FFL. I wouldn't do the 01 FFL transfer unless the seller covers all costs to do so. If the seller still refuses to send you the rifle after you proved to him it's legal, tell him to go pound sand. If he reports you to GB, return the favor with your own formal complaint to GB.
     

    s34n

    Member
    Feb 4, 2013
    12
    Just to follow up, I did agree to ship to 01FFL and he's picking up the fee. All communications were civil and he seems like a good guy. I think we both learned a lesson about dealing on gunbroker; I should have asked about shipping to Maryland, and he should have specified in his listing.
    Anyways I discovered an 01FFL that is close to me and also has some Swiss K31's listed on his website for a decent price. I was actually looking for a Swiss when I ended up with the SKS so maybe this was meant to be.
     

    mvee

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 13, 2007
    2,487
    Crofton
    As just said, any SKS in stock configuration is good to go here for direct shipping to an 03 FFL. I wouldn't do the 01 FFL transfer unless the seller covers all costs to do so. If the seller still refuses to send you the rifle after you proved to him it's legal, tell him to go pound sand. If he reports you to GB, return the favor with your own formal complaint to GB.

    I do not believe the Norinco SKSs imported in the 80s and 90s are c&r eligible.
     

    Docster

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 19, 2010
    9,768
    Wasn't referring to stuff that's blatantly contemporary. Don't want it either.

    You may not have been referring to anything 'blatantly' contemporary, but that's not what you said. "any SKS in stock configuration is good to go here for direct shipping to an 03 FFL." A noob or anyone else not very familiar with C & R or what's contemporary would have read that as ANY SKS, since that is what was stated...

    That's how misunderstandings are caused.
     

    kazan182

    Active Member
    Aug 3, 2011
    510
    If you still can, have him call an 01 here in MD like one of our IP's.

    I had a slightly different situation last year where a guy refused to send me a handgun. I had him call A1 (I asked the A1 guys if it was ok first) and they explained it was perfectly ok for him to ship the pistol to MD.

    The guy felt very comfy having spoke to a MD 01 dealer and the pistol was sent.

    I would think any IP who is an 01 would take the call for us.
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member
    let him know that it is legal to ship to a md 03.

    Show him the list of what it forbidden and that the SKS is not on that list.

    If he still refuses to ship to you you can do one of two things (I would not recommend arguing further)

    1. ship to an 01
    2. Walk away. If he won't ship to a legal recipient that's on him not you.

    I would NOT do No. 2 for the reasons discussed below. I would just find the cheapest 01 FFL around and use him/her to get the firearm, and then remember to never do business with the seller again. This is a hard lesson that all of us have had to learn - if you bid long enough, you will discover that there are people who (i) will not ship a firearm to Maryland even though the firearm may legally be shipped to Maryland and/or (ii) refuse to recognize an 03 FFL or refuse to recognize that a firearm is C&R eligible and require that the firearm be shipped to an 01 FFL. The seller has the right, whether or not we agree with its exercise, to refuse to ship to Maryland and/or refuse to ship to an 03 FFL. For these reasons, it is incumbent upon us, as buyers, to confirm with our sellers that they will ship to a Maryland 03 FFL before bidding. In this case, the seller's listing states that he will ship to an 03 FFL but he qualified that with "in most places". If the OP refuses to go through with the transaction, the seller is going to leave bad feedback and/or try to collect and the OP has no good defense because he should have confirmed that "most places" includes Maryland before bidding. It's just not worth the $50 +/- transfer fee to fight with the guy.
     

    Docster

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 19, 2010
    9,768
    I would NOT do No. 2 for the reasons discussed below. I would just find the cheapest 01 FFL around and use him/her to get the firearm, and then remember to never do business with the seller again. This is a hard lesson that all of us have had to learn - if you bid long enough, you will discover that there are people who (i) will not ship a firearm to Maryland even though the firearm may legally be shipped to Maryland and/or (ii) refuse to recognize an 03 FFL or refuse to recognize that a firearm is C&R eligible and require that the firearm be shipped to an 01 FFL. The seller has the right, whether or not we agree with its exercise, to refuse to ship to Maryland and/or refuse to ship to an 03 FFL. For these reasons, it is incumbent upon us, as buyers, to confirm with our sellers that they will ship to a Maryland 03 FFL before bidding. In this case, the seller's listing states that he will ship to an 03 FFL but he qualified that with "in most places". If the OP refuses to go through with the transaction, the seller is going to leave bad feedback and/or try to collect and the OP has no good defense because he should have confirmed that "most places" includes Maryland before bidding. It's just not worth the $50 +/- transfer fee to fight with the guy.

    To me, that's a tough call. I went through the same with a GB seller. He had the gun listed in the C & R category, but after the auction was ended refused to ship it to an FFL03. I bailed on the deal. He left me neg feedback and I responded factually in my feedback. So I got my story and suggestions out in the feedback '(if advertised in the C & R section, then it should be noted by the seller if he will/will not sell to C & R license holders'). As far as I can tell, that neg feedback has not affected my dealings on GB.

    Sometimes the message has to be sent; "yes it's OK to refuse to deal with an FFL03, but put that up on the auction! It's a C & R gun for God's sake!!" Then there's no misunderstanding and the seller can take ownership of his actions

    If the seller;
    --doesn't know
    --doesn't want to know
    --doesn't care

    .....about FFL03's, and doesn't take the initiative to state those conditions up front in a C & R auction, then it's on them, period.
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member
    To me, that's a tough call. I went through the same with a GB seller. He had the gun listed in the C & R category, but after the auction was ended refused to ship it to an FFL03. I bailed on the deal. He left me neg feedback and I responded factually in my feedback. So I got my story and suggestions out in the feedback '(if advertised in the C & R section, then it should be noted by the seller if he will/will not sell to C & R license holders'). As far as I can tell, that neg feedback has not affected my dealings on GB.

    Sometimes the message has to be sent; "yes it's OK to refuse to deal with an FFL03, but put that up on the auction! It's a C & R gun for God's sake!!" Then there's no misunderstanding and the seller can take ownership of his actions

    If the seller;
    --doesn't know
    --doesn't want to know
    --doesn't care

    .....about FFL03's, and doesn't take the initiative to state those conditions up front in a C & R auction, then it's on them, period.

    My point was that the seller did not say that an 03 FFL was fine across the board or list it in the C&R section without any discussion of license requirements. He said that an 03 FFL was okay "in most places" and did not name those places. When you're dealing with a seller like that, you need to ask the question before bidding or, eventually, you're going to get burned like in this case. I'll also make the point that a winning bid is a binding contract, and a seller could pursue you in court, could report negative credit information to the credit bureaus, etc. It's just not worth it. It's a lesson that most of us have learned the hard way. It is what it is. You can spend your life trying to fight/screw the ignorant moron who won't deal with you because he likes to protect his dealer buddies or thinks Maryland is a commy state, or you can learn to ask a few questions and move on from those kind of people. Too much energy wasted fighting these people, and they can make your life difficult.
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,711
    I agree 100% with Abulg (surprised?).
    When you win, you're committed.
    Sometime that sucks but we've all been there.

    Best is to try to work it out in a civil fashion.
    Many times all it takes is some friendly comms or even a call to MSP Licensing (that could be a double-edged sword but so far it's been positive for me).
    Ultimately fighting the war in negative feedbacks isn't productive IMHO but sometimes that's all your left with.
    It should always be a last resort though.

    I've seen several sellers that routinely list in the C$R category and state IN THE LISTING that they will only ship to FFL-01/dealer.
    That's a big WTF? for me and sayonara.

    But as stated above, I always check with the seller first now as "Maryland" does raise flags for some.


    On same topic, didn't we try to start a "C$R friendly seller" thread (and conversely "unfriendly")?
    If not we probably should.
     

    Docster

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 19, 2010
    9,768
    My point was that the seller did not say that an 03 FFL was fine across the board or list it in the C&R section without any discussion of license requirements. He said that an 03 FFL was okay "in most places" and did not name those places. When you're dealing with a seller like that, you need to ask the question before bidding or, eventually, you're going to get burned like in this case. I'll also make the point that a winning bid is a binding contract, and a seller could pursue you in court, could report negative credit information to the credit bureaus, etc. It's just not worth it. It's a lesson that most of us have learned the hard way. It is what it is. You can spend your life trying to fight/screw the ignorant moron who won't deal with you because he likes to protect his dealer buddies or thinks Maryland is a commy state, or you can learn to ask a few questions and move on from those kind of people. Too much energy wasted fighting these people, and they can make your life difficult.

    Calm down, there's no disagreement here. What was said was it's a tough call. My point was that the seller should have some responsibility in clarifying his positions; what is 'most places' or in other words, what are the few other places? Are those places where it is illegal or just where he doesn't want to deal with? Something along those lines of clarification, not just some arbitrary one-sided decision that carries no consequences for the seller. He is also part of the commitment and contract as well. Nowhere did I say or imply that civil discussion should not be attempted. This kind of issue should not be placed solely on the buyer is my point. Especially if the seller is a dealer, he should be aware of the C & R concept, it's basis in Federal law as it relates to state laws and be open to education. If not, then it's on him as far as I'm concerned and an FFL03 at that point could be within their rights to end the contract due to being vague and incomplete (IANAL)

    I always advocate trying to discuss solutions with the sellers. I found that some of the dealers want to avoid FFL03's without specifically stating so--they should be called out on that. I have more respect for a dealer that plainly states that he'll only ship to an FFL01. At least he's straightforward and upfront. I can just avoid them and not deal with the extra hassles.
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member
    Calm down, there's no disagreement here. What was said was it's a tough call. My point was that the seller should have some responsibility in clarifying his positions; what is 'most places' or in other words, what are the few other places? Are those places where it is illegal or just where he doesn't want to deal with? Something along those lines of clarification, not just some arbitrary one-sided decision that carries no consequences for the seller. He is also part of the commitment and contract as well. Nowhere did I say or imply that civil discussion should not be attempted. This kind of issue should not be placed solely on the buyer is my point. Especially if the seller is a dealer, he should be aware of the C & R concept, it's basis in Federal law as it relates to state laws and be open to education. If not, then it's on him as far as I'm concerned and an FFL03 at that point could be within their rights to end the contract due to being vague and incomplete (IANAL)



    I always advocate trying to discuss solutions with the sellers. I found that some of the dealers want to avoid FFL03's without specifically stating so--they should be called out on that. I have more respect for a dealer that plainly states that he'll only ship to an FFL01. At least he's straightforward and upfront. I can just avoid them and not deal with the extra hassles.


    Easy tiger. I am not at all excited and am as cool as a cucumber. You can argue about what the seller should have said more clearly in his listing all you want. It's incumbent on bidders to clarify unclear issues. Like I said, I have been on the receiving end of making bad assumptions. It's just part of the learning curve.
     

    j_h_smith

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 28, 2007
    28,516
    Hindsight being 20/20, I would have asked if he would ship to MD before placing the bid. Remember that when you bid on your next C&R eligible firearm.

    Good Luck!
    Jim Smith
     

    sxs

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2009
    3,377
    Anne Arundel County, MD
    Likewise, I have seen a few C&Rs firearms that were not categorized as such and it doesn't hurt when you see them to ask is an 03 FFL is acceptable. I came up with a really nice Pre war Sauer and Sohn Drilling off GunsAmerica for a very nice price that way. It came from an 01 FFL dealer

    I've not been burned to date, but having read of others experiences, I have just made it a practice to always ask if the 03 is OK before I bid.
     

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