AR Pistol and HQL?

outrider58 · Dec 18, 2020

Huuman said:
Ok so now I'm confused, is the 'RIFLE' desination only for 5.56 caliber? Ok so basically, if I built from scratch a 300 BLK with 10.5 inch barrel from a purchased 'other' AR-15 lower that I got gathering dust in the safe for months, a standard AR stock and grip. Would this be consider a pistol/sbr/rifle? Do I need an HQL?

My goal is to built a compact 300 BLK that I can take whitetail hunting from a treestand without the trouble of HQL/SBR/JAIL/etc. I have some spare AR parts and just wanted to know how to built it legally and logically.

Ignore the barrel thing for now. That was a reference to Hbar vs non Hbar.

Any firearm with a barrel shorter than 16 inches and has a shoulder stock attached would be considered an SBR and would fall under NFA requirements ie; $200 tax stamp along with a submitted form1 if you were to build it yourself or a form4 if you were to buy one already built. Neither require an HQL in Md.
If you build it without a stock, it would be considered a pistol 'build' and would not be considered an SBR and not require any dealings with the ATF. It would not require an HQL either.
For now, you could put a "Sig Brace" on your pistol, put that is becoming questionable due to ATF's recent actions.

Now there are things I may have left out, but I tried to answer your questions directly.

daggo66 · Dec 18, 2020

Huuman said:
Ok so now I'm confused, is the 'RIFLE' desination only for 5.56 caliber? Ok so basically, if I built from scratch a 300 BLK with 10.5 inch barrel from a purchased 'other' AR-15 lower that I got gathering dust in the safe for months, a standard AR stock and grip. Would this be consider a pistol/sbr/rifle? Do I need an HQL?

My goal is to built a compact 300 BLK that I can take whitetail hunting from a treestand without the trouble of HQL/SBR/JAIL/etc. I have some spare AR parts and just wanted to know how to built it legally and logically.

So you want to hunt in MD with a pistol?

Huuman · Dec 18, 2020

daggo66 said:
So you want to hunt in MD with a pistol?

Yes and no sir,

From what I understand counties that allow rifle also allow handgun. I have been using a bolt action rifle for hunting, but I wanted to try taking something more compact next season. I dont plan to take a handgun due to it's range, or at least my confident in my ability with a handgun at longer range than 25yrds. So I figured a compact AR pistol built would be good and heard great things about the 300BLK.

dblas · Dec 18, 2020

Huuman said:
Ok so now I'm confused, is the 'RIFLE' desination only for 5.56 caliber? Ok so basically, if I built from scratch a 300 BLK with 10.5 inch barrel from a purchased 'other' AR-15 lower that I got gathering dust in the safe for months, a standard AR stock and grip. Would this be consider a pistol/sbr/rifle?

If you put a standard stock on ANY ar-15 lower, it is now and forever a rifle, as a new build. THAT is federal law.

Huuman said:
Do I need an HQL?

NO...HQL is only for purchasing a handgun, not for building or owning anything.

Huuman said:
My goal is to built a compact 300 BLK that I can take whitetail hunting from a treestand without the trouble of HQL/SBR/JAIL/etc. I have some spare AR parts and just wanted to know how to built it legally and logically.

Define compact? If you mean a rifle with a barrel less than 16 inches, then it is an SBR and you need to get a form 1 approved by ATF before you even start putting parts together.

If you mean a rifle with a barrel over 16 inches, then it is a rifle and nothing needs to be done.

If you are talking a pistol with a pistol brace (barrel length doesn't matter), nothing more needs to be done, just can't be shouldered to fire.

dblas · Dec 18, 2020

Huuman said:
Yes and no sir,

From what I understand counties that allow rifle also allow handgun. I have been using a bolt action rifle for hunting, but I wanted to try taking something more compact next season. I dont plan to take a handgun due to it's range, or at least my confident in my ability with a handgun at longer range than 25yrds. So I figured a compact AR pistol built would be good and heard great things about the 300BLK.

If you aren't confident with a handgun, a .300 BO will be even worse, given the kick and blowback of the round. If you intend to shoulder your "pistol" then you don't have a pistol.

71Chevelle427 · Dec 18, 2020

Sorry for yet another AR PISTOL question...

IF it retains the pistol brace, and the owner wants to change from a 10.5" barrel to a 16" barrel...

Does it need to be an HBAR barrel?

I do not believe that it would need to be, since it is in fact, a PISTOL, but as effed up as every other damn law is here in Maryland, figured I'd ask the MDS experts.

outrider58 · Dec 18, 2020

71Chevelle427 said:
Sorry for yet another AR PISTOL question...

IF it retains the pistol brace, and the owner wants to change from a 10.5" barrel to a 16" barrel...

Does it need to be an HBAR barrel?

I do not believe that it would need to be, since it is in fact, a PISTOL, but as effed up as every other damn law is here in Maryland, figured I'd ask the MDS experts.

If you plan on shouldering it, I highly suggest an Hbar.
IDK if there is even any statute covering that, but I damn sure would NOT leave that up to MSP interpretation. Not me brother.

71Chevelle427 · Dec 18, 2020

outrider58 said:
If you plan on shouldering it, I highly suggest an Hbar.
IDK if there is even any statute covering that, but I damn sure would NOT leave that up to MSP interpretation. Not me brother.

That's what is effed up to me...As of right now, you can shoulder a pistol brace, and even if you don't "shoulder" it, it is still an AR pistol.

Personally, I would not choose to leave anything up to any law enforcement's interpretation. I am far from anti LEO...quite the opposite for the most part, but...Guarantee the overwhelming majority haven't the slightest idea what an HBAR even is, what it means, or what it pertains to.

outrider58 · Dec 18, 2020

71Chevelle427 said:
That's what is effed up to me...As of right now, you can shoulder a pistol brace, and even if you don't "shoulder" it, it is still an AR pistol.

Personally, I would not choose to leave anything up to any law enforcement's interpretation. I am far from anti LEO...quite the opposite for the most part, but...Guarantee the overwhelming majority haven't the slightest idea what an HBAR even is, what it means, or what it pertains to.

Basically, "shouldering" of pistol braces(AR 15) was and is not legal. It's been a misconception since their(BATFE) "reversal" in 2017. They, in fact, never said it was legal to shoulder an SB for shooting stability. What they said(paraphrasing here) was that it was understandable that if in the process of shooting, the brace may inadvertently come into contact with the shooter's shoulder and that that was acceptable.

Once again, the public took a wrong interpretation of that and went back to youtubing and all kinds of other stupidity. I've been telling people all along that the 2017 clarification was never intended as permission to shoulder Sig braces. Hell, I've always questioned the wisdom of even cheek welding a Sig brace. Since when do you cheek weld a pistol? I'll admit here, I am not without guilt.

Biggfoot44 · Dec 18, 2020

( For the purposes of this post I will sidestep the Pistol Brace issue , and also observe that there are ways to use an AR pistol in a hunting context other than shouldering with a Pistol Brace .)

Compact and Handy are subjective , and subject to context . In the context of hunting in the woods , is a 10.5in AR pistol more compact than say a true 16in bbl AR rifle with collapsible stock ? In the absolute sense yes . Is it meaningful , in the context of carrying them both slung ? You be the judge , but a properly slung 16in AR rifle is already pretty unburdensome .

Is a 6 to 7.5in holstered revolver easier to carry than an AR Pistol ? You betcha , and the difference is significant . ( Same answer with 10 inch T/C Contender for that matter. )

If you want to hunt with an AR Pistol on purpose , simply because you like them , or to figuratively give the finger to the Anti's , by all means go for it .

One of the key aspects of handgun hunting is to be more challenging for the hunter , either directly or indirectly .

So plan B is to commit more to your big bore revolver marksmanship , stalking skills and/ or careful placement of stands or ground blinds, and/ or use of terrain and natural flora .

outrider58 · Dec 18, 2020

Biggfoot44 said:
( For the purposes of this post I will sidestep the Pistol Brace issue , and also observe that there are ways to use an AR pistol in a hunting context other than shouldering with a Pistol Brace .)

Compact and Handy are subjective , and subject to context . In the context of hunting in the woods , is a 10.5in AR pistol more compact than say a true 16in bbl AR rifle with collapsible stock ? In the absolute sense yes . Is it meaningful , in the context of carrying them both slung ? You be the judge , but a properly slung 16in AR rifle is already pretty unburdensome .

Is a 6 to 7.5in holstered revolver easier to carry than an AR Pistol ? You betcha , and the difference is significant . ( Same answer with 10 inch T/C Contender for that matter. )

If you want to hunt with an AR Pistol on purpose , simply because you like them , or to figuratively give the finger to the Anti's , by all means go for it .

One of the key aspects of handgun hunting is to be more challenging for the hunter , either directly or indirectly .

So plan B is to commit more to your big bore revolver marksmanship , stalking skills and/ or careful placement of stands or ground blinds, and/ or use of terrain and natural flora .

I pretty much agree. I've hunted with all three(or was it four) methods-big bore HG, suppressed SBR(which when suppressor is attached becomes a full length AR), and T/C 'hand cannon' in .243 Win. Vive le difference!

Biggfoot44 · Dec 18, 2020

And if you do your handgun hunting in neighboring states , where 4 inches is minimum , it's still another dimension of handiness .

Huuman · Dec 21, 2020

Biggfoot44 said:
( For the purposes of this post I will sidestep the Pistol Brace issue , and also observe that there are ways to use an AR pistol in a hunting context other than shouldering with a Pistol Brace .)

Compact and Handy are subjective , and subject to context . In the context of hunting in the woods , is a 10.5in AR pistol more compact than say a true 16in bbl AR rifle with collapsible stock ? In the absolute sense yes . Is it meaningful , in the context of carrying them both slung ? You be the judge , but a properly slung 16in AR rifle is already pretty unburdensome .

Is a 6 to 7.5in holstered revolver easier to carry than an AR Pistol ? You betcha , and the difference is significant . ( Same answer with 10 inch T/C Contender for that matter. )

If you want to hunt with an AR Pistol on purpose , simply because you like them , or to figuratively give the finger to the Anti's , by all means go for it .

One of the key aspects of handgun hunting is to be more challenging for the hunter , either directly or indirectly .

So plan B is to commit more to your big bore revolver marksmanship , stalking skills and/ or careful placement of stands or ground blinds, and/ or use of terrain and natural flora .

What you are saying make sense. To be honest, what I want and what make sense and what the experienced people tell me to do does not always agree. Some of it is is me being stubborn and trying everything and learning from my mistakes, even if other has already told me what I should do correctly.

Maybe once I hunt with a AR-15 (pistol/sbr/full), maybe I will realizes its not for me or no difference than my bolt action. But I want to do it anyway and experience it myself. Worse case scenario, got myself another gun and wasted a day in the wood with nature.

Hell, if I listen to my father in law make fun of me everytime he see me for months about saddle hunting, I would of gave up. But its my main method now and I love my saddle.

Biggfoot44 · Dec 21, 2020

By all means , persue any legal and ethical method that strikes your fancy . Just Because is plenty reason enough .

Just be cognizant of the capabilities and limitations of ( everything ) .

Shore88 · Jan 2, 2021

dblas said:
If you aren't confident with a handgun, a .300 BO will be even worse, given the kick and blowback of the round. If you intend to shoulder your "pistol" then you don't have a pistol.

I know you were talking about pistol comparisons, but I have a question regarding the kick and blowback of a .300 Blk in 10.5”. I was under the impression that this gun has less recoil than a standard AR 5.56? I know the shorter barrel length has a lot to do with increased recoil/sound but I also thought the .300 has less powder therefore less kick. How about recoil/sound using subsonic rounds?

THier · Jan 2, 2021

ARPistol410 said:
im not trying to get a HQL though if I dont need one.

Originally I was going by "F Maryland and their HQL, I pretty much have all I NEED" but then I figured THAT is exactly what MD wanted,, so I got my HQL.

AR Pistol and HQL?

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