Maryland De Facto Law Constitution Carry?

SlaveNoMoreMD · Jan 31, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Yepper... they would simply notify all ASAs prosecuting gun cases... to disqualify any and all potential jurors who were CCW holders or owned firearms.

And on top of that.
The prior history of the defendant is not introduced into the trial proceedings until AFTER the verdict is reached. Therefore, the notion that one would only nullify for folks without a prior history of felony or other violent crimes... is simply ignorant of the law and court proceedings.

The prior record of any person can not be used to determine guilt or innocence. It is only used, post verdict, in determining the severity of the sentence to be handed down to the guilty.

And... entering into any agreement which binds one to a preset verdict or action by jurors... prior to hearing the facts of the case... is not only a stab in the back to our American justice system... it could be considered a crime of conspiracy.

I hear you. However, many people want a MD W&C permit, but don't have one. How can they determine they have a permit; especially, jurors who hold a permit from other states?

You only want to convict the person who is on trial for a felony charge. If the person did not cause harm to anyone indicating during that trial, we should automatically acquit that person for carrying a firearm to protect themselves and family using the jury nullification process.

SlaveNoMoreMD · Jan 31, 2020

Engine4 said:
Regardless of the jury names, the op raises a good point. Until scotus once & for all rules in favor of 2A, we as gun owners are increasingly on our own. "We will not comply" should & will be more then a promise. We'll need to begin ignoring unconstitutional anti 2A laws, stop going into places that have metal detectors, installing locking hiding places in our vehicles, etc. The old saying "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" is truer today than ever before. Especially with jury nullification.

You are absolutely correct. We need to start having more teeth during our not comply and demand action of what we want.

SlaveNoMoreMD · Jan 31, 2020

rambling_one said:
It’s hard to vote when there are no acceptable candidates.

True. However, the votes are already fixed no matter how much we try and vote the democrats out, they will continue to have the majority. As a result, Republicans/Libertarians pro 2A candidates can't win in this state at the delegate/senate level because of the fix. We need a new approach....

SlaveNoMoreMD · Jan 31, 2020

Maybe this is what the SCOTUS want us to do. Maybe not only in MD, but NJ, NY, and CA to finally stand up and demand and take back the 2A shall carry issue ourselves before moving forward in hearing a shall issue carry case. Maybe we have to show them we really want it and willing to take this action upon ourselves before they are willing to jump out there for us.

#We Will Not Comply or Convict

delaware_export · Jan 31, 2020

Don’t ask don’t tell. Just do it. (Bill Clinton meets Nike!)

If you find yourself on a jury and it’s a guy with a gun.... no permit, All other things ok/legal. Not guilty

If it’s a guy, a gun, ...., where ... is dealing drugs, murdering, assault, robbing bank, etc, do what you see fit.

Dems love that civil disobedience stuff. Give them some if you find yourself in the position.

When I think about the Steinle thing in SFO, It reminds me now JN works.

SlaveNoMoreMD · Jan 31, 2020

delaware_export said:
Don’t ask don’t tell. Just do it. (Bill Clinton meets Nike!)

If you find yourself on a jury and it’s a guy with a gun.... no permit, All other things ok/legal. Not guilty

If it’s a guy, a gun, ...., where ... is dealing drugs, murdering, assault, robbing bank, etc, do what you see fit.

Dems love that civil disobedience stuff. Give them some if you find yourself in the position.

When I think about the Steinle thing in SFO, It reminds me now JN works.

Exactly. Heck we don't even have the HPRB any longer now.

I'm willing to cover my pro 2A brother in court using jury nullification as the next option. Do you guys have my back (another 2A supporter: neighbor, shooting buddy, friend, family member, the guy who just want to protect himself and family)?

RoadDawg · Jan 31, 2020

SlaveNoMoreMD said:
I hear you. However, many people want a MD W&C permit, but don't have one. How can they determine they have a permit; especially, jurors who hold a permit from other states?

You only want to convict the person who is on trial for a felony charge. If the person did not cause harm to anyone indicating during that trial, we should automatically acquit that person for carrying a firearm to protect themselves and family using the jury nullification process.

What? Try reading my post again. I never said that.

RoadDawg · Jan 31, 2020

SlaveNoMoreMD said:
True. However, the votes are already fixed no matter how much we try and vote the democrats out, they will continue to have the majority. As a result, Republicans/Libertarians pro 2A candidates can't win in this state at the delegate/senate level because of the fix. We need a new approach....

Not true.

If the republicans and the libertarians were to team up in this state... the Dems would be out on there ears in just a few elections. But it would require cooperation and participation of both to do it.

SlaveNoMoreMD · Jan 31, 2020

RoadDawg said:
What? Try reading my post again. I never said that.

No I was attempting to say, "the juror" only want to convict a person who is on trial for a felony charge. Not you specifically. Sorry for the confusion..

SlaveNoMoreMD · Jan 31, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Not true.

If the republicans and the libertarians were to team up in this state... the Dems would be out on there ears in just a few elections. But it would require cooperation and participation of both to do it.

Not sure. Neither have taking control yet in places that carry this state in voting. I don't beleive Republicans or Libertarians can win in (Baltimore County/City, PG County, and Mont County) to name a few. The dems have those areas on lock despite people want to change leadership for sometime now.

rambling_one · Jan 31, 2020

SlaveNoMoreMD said:
True. However, the votes are already fixed no matter how much we try and vote the democrats out, they will continue to have the majority. As a result, Republicans/Libertarians pro 2A candidates can't win in this state at the delegate/senate level because of the fix. We need a new approach....

TheBert suggests we run for office. Ain’t that a barrel of laughs. :lol:

Biggfoot44 · Jan 31, 2020

Jury Nullification IS a Real Thing , and from the beginning of Common Law was almost a Fourth Branch to be an additional Check & Balance . BUT ....

The current era Judicial System Hates it , walks the line between pretending it doesn't exist , and blocking it out .

From my personal experience of being called multiple occasions for Jury Duty , it's like this :

As the portion of the Pool reports to a courtroom , before the rest of the process starts , the Judge has his intro speech , with will include a part to the effect of " If chosen , you will be expected to decide based upon the evidence given in Court, and * the Law as explained by the Judge , only *. Is there anyone unable to do that ? " . Replying with any references to the complete role of Juries , will quickly get an excusal . For those wishing to duck Jury Duty make a note to yourself to say " Those are fine starting points , but it is also the Right and the DUTY of every Jury to also consider : 1. Is this law Constitutional in general ? 2. Is this law Constitutional as applied currently to this Defendent ?

In the Department of Strange Bedfellows , a somewhat coherent effort was used in regards to Marijuana Possession . Its success was more than zero, if far less than weed advocates hoped for .

In the Department of Unintended Consequences , for many years after that , Gun Rights advocates deliberately avoided persuing a Nullification strategy , because they feared doing so would backlash hy being tarred for using " Druggie Tactics " . But enough years have passed , and public attitudes have changed enough about weed , that it probably can be discussed again .

That said , don't get too optimistic ( in Maryland , in our current era ) . We're too outnumbered , and the general public has been too brainwashed that DrugsAndGUNS is all one word . ( Oversimplified , but my time is too short , and distilled beverage level too low .)

RoadDawg · Feb 1, 2020

SlaveNoMoreMD said:
No I was attempting to say, "the juror" only want to convict a person who is on trial for a felony charge. Not you specifically. Sorry for the confusion..

SlaveNoMoreMD said:
Not sure. Neither have taking control yet in places that carry this state in voting. I don't beleive Republicans or Libertarians can win in (Baltimore County/City, PG County, and Mont County) to name a few. The dems have those areas on lock despite people want to change leadership for sometime now.

Not “either or”...

Together... R and I working together could break the strangle hold of the D party on Maryland politics.

ToolAA · Feb 1, 2020

rseymorejr said:
I think that would give the state a list of people to exclude from serving on juries. It's been almost 30 years since I was called for jury duty, not sure how they select now??

It’s funny you say this. My wife has been called 3-4 times in 25yrs, but I have never been called.

Mark75H · Feb 1, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Not “either or”...

Together... R and I working together could break the strangle hold of the D party on Maryland politics.

Even together they don't have close to the numbers to beat the straight ticket D voters. Not even by half

RoadDawg · Feb 1, 2020

Mark75H said:
Even together they don't have close to the numbers to beat the straight ticket D voters. Not even by half

That would be depending on who shows up to vote. Less than half do... in most elections. But it will never happen so long as folks are convinced that it can’t.

bibitor · Feb 1, 2020

“Optimism and stupidity are nearly synonymous.”
― Hyman G. Rickover

Engine4 · Feb 1, 2020

Would it be considered jury tampering if one was to walk on the public sidewalk outside of a courthouse with a sign endorsing nullification?

chuck · Feb 1, 2020

RoadDawg said:
And on top of that.
The prior history of the defendant is not introduced into the trial proceedings until AFTER the verdict is reached. Therefore, the notion that one would only nullify for folks without a prior history of felony or other violent crimes... is simply ignorant of the law and court proceedings.

The prior record of any person can not be used to determine guilt or innocence. It is only used, post verdict, in determining the severity of the sentence to be handed down to the guilty.

So you are saying that someone who is disqualified from owning firearms because of a felony conviction would either not be charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm, or the prosecutors would not have to prove that they are a felon?

If their prior history does not disqualify them from owning a firearm, then I don't think I would find it a reason to change my opinion on their right to carry.

RoadDawg · Feb 2, 2020

bibitor said:
“Optimism and stupidity are nearly synonymous.”
― Hyman G. Rickover

So hope and working for the good of the future is stupid...

Got it. :tdown:

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