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  • knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    There are a few things that stand out as challenges in my mind:
    1) Price point - $1,200 per year for a facility that will be too cold for most people in MD from December through February is tough
    2) Environmental impact study - that's going to be costly because you'll be putting a lot of lead into the ground
    3) Buffer area - if someone shoots high during one of your tactical sessions, that bullet could land a mile away. Noise will also be a factor that requires a big buffer zone. You're going to have to own the land for a buffer zone.
    4) Safety - this is a wide open concept. There are plenty of people with the money to go to such a range that lack the skill and common sense to be safe.
    5) Staff - you'll need several very competent, full time staff members. Even if you max out membership, paying six full time staffers with only $10,000 of monthly income will be impossible considering the fixed costs of running such a facility.
    6) Insurance and liability - if you could find a company to insure that enterprise, you would find your premiums to be very high.
    7) Fixed costs - between acreage, utilities, equipment, insurance, building costs, etc., you'll already be spending over $10,000 per month.
    8) Super-high risk - as soon as one person gets shot and severely wounded, your business is over. I have run plenty of military live fire ranges, and even with the high degree of control we exercise over trainees, people get hurt.

    I don't want to dampen your entrepreneurial spirit, but you are looking to do a lot with an income potential of only $10,000/month. You'd probably need $25,000 per month just to be able to turn a modest profit.


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    LGood48

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 3, 2011
    6,084
    Cecil County
    Greetings! :wave: Sorry, but $1200/year is just too rich for my tastes. I'll stick with my $100/year gun club that periodically offers pretty much all the same training throughout the year.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    33,217
    While to ME I'd rather have membership at cool range, and throw all the TV out of the house, spousal units and families don't see it that way.

    Tell a family they have to go without the idiot box so you can pay gun club dues, it will be a race to see if the divorce goes through before your food is poisoned.
     

    Recon_D0c

    Member
    May 30, 2017
    62
    bigfoot phenomenal comments!

    i appreciate ALL the opinions, i again just disagree with the whole 300 bucks per weekend "training" session.

    i love hearing the negatives, won't dampen my spirits at all, just more research to conduct!
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    bigfoot phenomenal comments!



    i appreciate ALL the opinions, i again just disagree with the whole 300 bucks per weekend "training" session.



    i love hearing the negatives, won't dampen my spirits at all, just more research to conduct!



    I think the thing that is going to require the most research is the business model. Your stated model has an optimal base income of only $120,000 per year. That is not going to be enough to cover costs and pay yourself, let alone other qualified instructors. Your enterprise will have a significant amount of overhead, even though you intend to use a simplified approach.

    I'm a member of FreeState Gun Range in Middle River. FreeState runs a lot of the tactical training you are taking about. They also provide holster fire for people with the appropriate training. Simply meeting a need, perceived or real, is not a sufficient plan for a successful business. FreeState has a well developed plan with experienced veterans leading the way. Considering the competition is one of the things you have to consider.

    Best wishes.


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    Recon_D0c

    Member
    May 30, 2017
    62
    I think the thing that is going to require the most research is the business model. Your stated model has an optimal base income of only $120,000 per year. That is not going to be enough to cover costs and pay yourself, let alone other qualified instructors. Your enterprise will have a significant amount of overhead, even though you intend to use a simplified approach.

    I'm a member of FreeState Gun Range in Middle River. FreeState runs a lot of the tactical training you are taking about. They also provide holster fire for people with the appropriate training. Simply meeting a need, perceived or real, is not a sufficient plan for a successful business. FreeState has a well developed plan with experienced veterans leading the way. Considering the competition is one of the things you have to consider.

    Best wishes.


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    FreeState is killing it, ive been several times. As far as an actual place to train, I wouldnt call it that.

    EDIT- I am at the very beginning of the B2B Class and syracuse program, I will have much more business savy talk to project later. Just looking for opinions and emotions, I appreciate all who post!
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    You're doing the best thing you can do right now in talking to knowledgeable shooters. Establishing the market need is an important first step. Along with that is defining the service to provide. Our perception of a need does not always match that of the market.


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    Alan3413

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 4, 2013
    17,164
    While to ME I'd rather have membership at cool range, and throw all the TV out of the house, spousal units and families don't see it that way.

    Tell a family they have to go without the idiot box so you can pay gun club dues, it will be a race to see if the divorce goes through before your food is poisoned.

    I weaned mine off cable years ago. Good riddance to a waste of money. Now it's high speed internet.

    All I'm saying is: I can afford another cable subscription if I find it valuable to me.
     

    Recon_D0c

    Member
    May 30, 2017
    62
    You're doing the best thing you can do right now in talking to knowledgeable shooters. Establishing the market need is an important first step. Along with that is defining the service to provide. Our perception of a need does not always match that of the market.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    appreciate that wisdom.

    i just know shooting pre-training I've recieved and post. After being taught what i've been taught and who it was by, I can never go back. I feel the need to spread that love haha. Best times of my life no doubt
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    appreciate that wisdom.



    i just know shooting pre-training I've recieved and post. After being taught what i've been taught and who it was by, I can never go back. I feel the need to spread that love haha. Best times of my life no doubt



    Understood. As a former infantryman and cavalryman, I get that. I have a small side business as a firearms trainer. Right now, I provide three services. I teach the NRA's Refuse To Be A Victim seminar. I also teach Maryland HQL and Wear and Carry. Lastly, I run a seminar for people who are looking to make an informed handgun purchase where the participants get to handle and shoot a variety of handguns. I haven't had time to do a lot of business development. I am very gainfully employed as an engineer in health diagnostic services. I break even every year and I get to buy new guns to support the business. This is my latest purchase:
    d48fef458a7db2858daade0bfc9e87f4.jpg



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    Recon_D0c

    Member
    May 30, 2017
    62
    Understood. As a former infantryman and cavalryman, I get that. I have a small side business as a firearms trainer. Right now, I provide three services. I teach the NRA's Refuse To Be A Victim seminar. I also teach Maryland HQL and Wear and Carry. Lastly, I run a seminar for people who are looking to make an informed handgun purchase where the participants get to handle and shoot a variety of handguns. I haven't had time to do a lot of business development. I am very gainfully employed as an engineer in health diagnostic services. I break even every year and I get to buy new guns to support the business. This is my latest purchase:
    d48fef458a7db2858daade0bfc9e87f4.jpg



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    That's awesome! way to be involved! Health diagnostic services? that's dope, y'all hiring? 5 years military medicine with my Bachelors in IT. :D
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    That's awesome! way to be involved! Health diagnostic services? that's dope, y'all hiring? 5 years military medicine with my Bachelors in IT. :D



    We design, develop, and manufacture medical diagnostic equipment. I'm working on a system that diagnoses high volumes of molecular samples. PM me and I'll give you an address to send your resume to.


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    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    33,217
    What Knastera said in post #26.

    Best case scenario with full membership roster, and a waiting list to instantly plug any gaps, is absolute maximum gross cashflow of $120k per year. You would be doing good to cover real estate costs ( lease or mortage payments) , utilities, and fixed expenses for that. And to do that, you would be working 80 plus hrs per week with no salary, and have no paid employees.

    Not to single out CMCT , but that's a pretty good representation of what demand exists, and what market will bear for the niche you are targeting . Ie 80% of locally based civillians, looking for training beyond usual NRA offerings , in manageable chunks, reasonably close to home. The small percentage of Hard Core Training Junkies ( said in positive way ) such as MDS member Hogarth travels widely to seek out Trainers of National Reputation.

    We're presuming your goal is to own and operate a facility to be sufficiently profitable to provide income sufficient to live off of . But there could be other possibilities:

    You're independently wealthy, want to give back to the shooting community, and only want to defray some of the cost.

    It will be a front for your fledgling mercenary outfit.

    It will be a front for a drug network.

    But if our initial supposition is correct, you will have modify your parameters. Do you have connections to bid for .gov contracts ? If so that could pay the bills, and opening the facility to civillians inbetween ( either by day rate, lesser membership structure, or combination) for the profit.

    Not to single out CMCT , but since they are a touch point for this discussion, and fairly representive of their class : Have training offering basically similar. If you want to have 20% more bang-bang for 20% less fee, fine. But recognizable in the same ballpark of structure. THEN , offer membership for use of facilities when not in use for training classes. And to give added incentive for memberships, give members hefty discount for class offerings .
     

    PapiBarcelona

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2011
    7,361
    You should talk with some of the instructors here to see how hard it is to get people to commit to training classes.

    I don't see many people spending $100/month to shoot in some guys big backyard or your friends farm.
     

    Recon_D0c

    Member
    May 30, 2017
    62
    You should talk with some of the instructors here to see how hard it is to get people to commit to training classes.

    I don't see many people spending $100/month to shoot in some guys big backyard or your friends farm.

    This is my biggest concern yet, one i personally do not empathize with. For us shooters, it's really a way of life. I cannot understand not wanting to train, properly at that.

    who doesn't want to learn to shred? :party29:
     

    5cary

    On the spreading edge of the butter knife.
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2007
    3,680
    Sykesville, MD
    If it were closer to me (I'm in Carroll), I'd maybe consider it. Would have to be close enough to get to a couple of times a week, though. I have a hard time seeing you making the business work with that small a clientele, though.

    OT: You a SARC?
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,257
    Outside the Gates
    If it were closer to me (I'm in Carroll), I'd maybe consider it. Would have to be close enough to get to a couple of times a week, though. I have a hard time seeing you making the business work with that small a clientele, though.

    OT: You a SARC?

    An example of the old business saying - 3 most important things: location, location, location
     

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