Questions about Pistol/SBR builds and FSA 13

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  • gmkoh

    Active Member
    Feb 26, 2013
    327
    Annapolis
    A couple questions about convoluted MD laws

    1. What if any additional paperwork (forms) would be needed to build a AR pistol on a lower already purchased on a 77R before FSA 13?

    2. After obtaining a tax stamp can the pistol configured AR be made into an SBR? (change the brace/buffer to a stock/buffer; OAL maintained >26")

    3. Can it be converted back to a pistol (remove stock/buffer and replace with Brace/buffer) without additional paperwork?

    4. Does it make a difference if the build is 5.56 or another caliber, such as 300 BO? (would think not as neither pistols nor SBR's fall under FSA 13 based on caliber or heavy barrel configuration)

    If I understand FSA 13, I think the answer to 1 is none, 2 and 3 yes, and 4 no.

    Thx
     

    Jstevens56

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 9, 2012
    1,295
    Somewhere in Merryland
    IANAL - however, you need a virgin lower to make a pistol. you can later convert into a SBR. you cannot convert back to a pistol after you have converted to an SBR (at least I do not believe so, although, what would be the point) and you dont need to designate your caliber unless designated on your lower, many are labeled "Multi"
     

    dontpanic

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 7, 2013
    6,631
    Timonium
    The answer to number 2 is the SBR must be =>29" OAL. Otherwise yes, the pistol can be made an SBR.

    The pistol can be any length but must be =>26" OAL to use a VFG
     
    1- First of all, don't "waste" a pre FSA2013 ban lower on a pistol or SBR. You can buy a new stripped lower for cheap. Buy new lower as "other" and build your pistol- no other state legalities to worry about.
    2- After FSA2013, SBR's in Maryland need to be =/>29" in Maryland.
    3- Because of #2, I don't see a point in SBR'ing anything in Maryland, especially since The BATFE has declared that occasional shouldering of pistol braces is legal. Put your $200 tax stamps into suppressors. You will enjoy them a lot more.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    1. None. The lower has to have been purchased as Other or Pistol. If it was transferred as rifle, it cannot be made into a pistol. But why waste a nice pre-FSA lower.

    2. Yes, but in MD it must be a minimum of 29" long.

    3. Yes, it it started as a pistol, it can be converted to rifle and back to pistol. If it is first built as a rifle, no, it cannot be made into a pistol.

    4. No, only time caliber comes into it is for a rifle. 5.56 has to be HBAR.
     

    hazmatman

    Member
    Jul 14, 2014
    9
    Pre-FSA 13 Lowers

    So a couple commenters said basically, "don't waste a pre-FSA 2013 lower on a new pistol or SBR build" and I am trying to follow the logic except for one thing...

    ...what now in Maryland is the specific advantage of possessing lowers purchased pre-FSA 2013? What can I build with them which I could not with post-FSA 2013 lowers?

    THX
     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,481
    Fairfax, VA
    So a couple commenters said basically, "don't waste a pre-FSA 2013 lower on a new pistol or SBR build" and I am trying to follow the logic except for one thing...

    ...what now in Maryland is the specific advantage of possessing lowers purchased pre-FSA 2013? What can I build with them which I could not with post-FSA 2013 lowers?

    THX

    An evil barrel AR in a rifle format.
     

    MindTheGAP

    Active Member
    Jan 4, 2018
    574
    Maryland
    An evil barrel AR in a rifle format.
    Just this, really. Pencil / govt / M203 profile barrels instead of a fatass HBAR. Though even the HBAR thing is anecdotally based on how the manufacturer advertises / sells it. IIRC, you can have a non-profiled "HBAR" if it's stamped that way from the manu.
     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,481
    Fairfax, VA
    Folding stocks

    And an M203 mounted while it has a folding stock and/or flash hider right? I can't remember if MSP considers an M203 to be a "grenade launcher" for the purposes of the feature test.

    Would an SBR made from a preban lower have to be 29" OAL or does MSP consider it "manufacturing" a new firearm?
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    And an M203 mounted while it has a folding stock and/or flash hider right? I can't remember if MSP considers an M203 to be a "grenade launcher" for the purposes of the feature test.

    Would an SBR made from a preban lower have to be 29" OAL or does MSP consider it "manufacturing" a new firearm?
    An SBR made post ban becomes a new gun and applies to post ban requirements.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
     

    hazmatman

    Member
    Jul 14, 2014
    9
    THX!

    An evil barrel AR in a rifle format.

    That was my gut assumption since the serial numbered lower was purchased prior to the restrictions. The satanic light barrels with demonic flash suppressors versus angelic heavy barrels with muzzle brakes that are guaranteed to prevent criminal activity.

    I suppose I will need to counsel any rifle I build off those lowers regularly to keep them from running out and perpetrating random criminal acts.

    THX!
     

    gmkoh

    Active Member
    Feb 26, 2013
    327
    Annapolis
    I (the OP) think I have enough evil 5.56 AR's so I wouldn't consider it wasting a pre ban lower on something else. That is why I was considering using my "extra" preban lower for an AR pistol build (probably in 300 blackout). If I were to get another AR style 5.56, I think I'd go with a non evil gas piston type.

    Without trying to dig out my paperwork, were preban lowers registered on the form 77 registered as rifles? and therefore cannot be built into a pistol?

    But I could legally buy a post 2013 lower, register it as "other" and build it into a pistol.. Or I could just buy a complete AR pistol.

    Once a pistol, could I convert it into an SBR with proper paperwork and $200 and OAL >29"? ( I know, why would I want to... which is a point well taken, but asked for sake of discussion)
     

    Rab1515

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 29, 2014
    2,081
    Calvert
    I (the OP) think I have enough evil 5.56 AR's so I wouldn't consider it wasting a pre ban lower on something else. That is why I was considering using my "extra" preban lower for an AR pistol build (probably in 300 blackout). If I were to get another AR style 5.56, I think I'd go with a non evil gas piston type.

    Without trying to dig out my paperwork, were preban lowers registered on the form 77 registered as rifles? and therefore cannot be built into a pistol?

    But I could legally buy a post 2013 lower, register it as "other" and build it into a pistol.. Or I could just buy a complete AR pistol.

    Once a pistol, could I convert it into an SBR with proper paperwork and $200 and OAL >29"? ( I know, why would I want to... which is a point well taken, but asked for sake of discussion)

    Virgin Stripped lowers should always be transferred as an other, which means it can be anything. For your second question, short awnser is yes, but you have to follow rifle and pistol rules, ie 223 SBR must have a hbar, and you know the rest from sb281.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    There is plenty of debate on whether a post ban SBR is required to have a heavy barrel in Md.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    It seems that MSP is NOT applying the ban list to SBRs (you can make SBR ARs and AKs, etc). But they ARE applying the copy cat requirements.

    So, based on that, an SBR AR-15 would not have to have a heavy barrel.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,163
    If you have kids or grand kids a pre ban lower can be made into an evil pencil barrel AR and willed to your descendants so they can legally have one years after FS2013. Lowers are inexpensive enough so no need to use a pre ban for anything still legal. They are not making any more pre ban lowers.
     

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