What's "legal" in court for home defense

Deacon51 said:

A few month back I was reading about the conviction of a Hiker in Texas. This hiker was walking a trail in Texas when he encountered two large dogs and the dogs owner. The dogs attacked, and the hiker drew his weapon and shot them. Then, holding a stick over his head the dogs owner charge the hiker and he two was killed.

The Dog owner was know to be a little off, his dogs where known to be hostel. The Dog owner had a reputation of assaulting and harassing park visitors. The shooter was a teacher or something, I can't remember, but a fine and upstanding member of the community.

He is now server 15 years for murder.

Now, the main issue was he did not "Prove" he was unable to retreat. But, I read the account of one of the jurors, and they stated that the shooter was using hollow point ammo as part of her decision to convict.

Now, personally, my self defense load out in Gold Dot's. But, the reason I use them is because if I am defending myself, I will be doing so in my home, where my wife, kids and dog live. I use a hollow point round due to it's resistance to overpenetration and endangering others.

Remember that.

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After the trial, jurors said they didn't believe Fish's claim of self-defense, mostly because testimony from a medical examiner indicated Kuenzli's wounds were probably defensive.

He testified that Kuenzli's side was turned toward Fish when the first shot struck him.

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The first vote revealed the jury was split, four to four. Some of the jurors, because of the defense testimony, saw Grant Kuenzli as an aggressive, violent "monster" rushing at Fish that day.

"Then there were some of us who just didn't buy it," Nelson said, adding that Kuenzli was a dog lover, a volunteer for the animal shelter in Payson and had friends in the community.

Nelson said the jury decided to review what the medical examiner had to say on the subject. Fish's version was that Kuenzli was rushing at him and he feared for his life, which is why he shot Kuenzli three times in the chest, one of the bullets hitting Kuenzli's hand.

"(The medical examiner) said Mr. Kuenzli was (sideways) to Mr. Fish when the first shot occurred," Nelson said. "I thought that was pretty remarkable testimony."

The medical examiner explained that Kuenzli was not facing Fish at the time of the first shot, and actually had his hands out in front of him.

"So (Kuenzli) was like protecting himself, and they were defensive wounds," Nelson said. "They were not antagonistic. That's really what swayed the jury."

Additionally, the jury was troubled by several discrepancies in Fish's version of what happened that varied from separate investigator interviews and grand jury testimony.

"We came to distrust his testimony," Nelson said. "I wish he had gotten onto the stand to explain the discrepancies."

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The jurors believed Fish did the right thing in helping Kuenzli after the shooting, but some were troubled about whether he could have done more.

Nelson: Why didn’t he try to stop the bleeding? Why didn’t he try to pack the wound? He was a scout master.

And this juror was disturbed by the type of bullets Fish used.

Elliot: The whole hollow point thing bothered me. That bullet is designed to do as much damage as absolutely possible. It’s designed to kill.

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Deacon51 said:

Fish... yeah, that's the case. Thanks for taking the time to research and provide links!

That trial was really f*ed up. Fish did not testify, the defense didn't seem to offer a counter to the medical examiner, the testament that the dog walker was nuts was not allowed.

From the MSNBC story...


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15199221/
Page 5

See that's what struck me, the juror said "It’s designed to kill"...
Remember, and make sure your lawyer remembers and all the jurors remember, that Hollow Point is NOT designed to kill, it's designed to resist over penetration! It's a safer round!

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smores said:

Wow, I really hope I never have to defend myself. On top of the burden of taking someone's life, then to be accused of murder? That must be horrible

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pauln said:

But Mas Ayoob also will tell you, if you have any doubts, don't shoot.

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pauln said:

Mas Ayoob has his LFI-I and LFI-II classes scheduled for June near Harrisburg, PA this year if anyone is interested. I planning on going up for the LFI-II class. They're 40 hr. classes and cover a lot of information on the use of deadly force in a defensive shooting situation. It's not often that these are offered anywhere close to here.

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