Engage to sell so called "smart gun"

Fishguy · May 2, 2014

Andy didn't do himself any favors with that circus stunt video. While I agree with his sentiment and stand with him, for whatever it is worth, I was embarrassed by the ranting video.

I am also embarrassed by our community and how we reacted yesterday. This situation is a giant poo sandwich that we all had a hand making right along with the antis.

Sometimes, we are our own worst enemy.

erwos · May 2, 2014

pilotguy said:
I disagree with his initial decision to sell the gun mostly from the standpoint that as a Maryland resident, I am tired of retailers in other states telling me "too bad--your legislature made it difficult and so I'm not selling to you even though it is legal to." We really need to be a unified 2A community throughout every state, helping our brothers and sisters where we can. Especially now when the anti tactic is to work state by state to carve us up.

Funny. I had the same thought, and my reaction was "hey, screw those guys in other states, I hope this thing is a knife right in the gut". They don't want to lift a hand to help us, I'm not going to spend much time worrying about them, either.

DC-W · May 2, 2014

jpo183 said:
My issue is not the shops free choice to sell a product but they are in a way waiving the "its here flag" to legislators. You are all correct when you say it is the legislators that are causing the problems however when we blatantly waive this in front of them we are giving them a free shot at us.

They can now say, its here and right down the street so we can mandate it. When no one has the product you can argue you are making a ban on the product.

CA was in arms because of the already strict gun laws, the dealer was saying hey here you go, you can make it stricter.

I tell you right now IMO I believe what Engage just did will be the spark that forced this next law.

I already had a liberal staff member talk to me yesterday about this saying its here cant wait to see them implemented.

If there was a "demand" for it the customer could have called, asked, and Engage could have ordered it for them.

I DO NOT like this decision they made and I fear the outcome.

For the record those people threatening death threats, etc...they should be in jail.

So what you're saying is, is that it's OK for Engage to sell them via request... WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO.

I don't see anyone crying for our FFLs to stop selling HBARs or AR10s because the MGA might take notice and ban them.

There's no logic in this argument at all.

alucard0822 · May 2, 2014

jpo183 said:
My issue is not the shops free choice to sell a product but they are in a way waiving the "its here flag" to legislators. You are all correct when you say it is the legislators that are causing the problems however when we blatantly waive this in front of them we are giving them a free shot at us.

They can now say, its here and right down the street so we can mandate it. When no one has the product you can argue you are making a ban on the product.

CA was in arms because of the already strict gun laws, the dealer was saying hey here you go, you can make it stricter.

I tell you right now IMO I believe what Engage just did will be the spark that forced this next law.

I already had a liberal staff member talk to me yesterday about this saying its here cant wait to see them implemented.

If there was a "demand" for it the customer could have called, asked, and Engage could have ordered it for them.

I DO NOT like this decision they made and I fear the outcome.

For the record those people threatening death threats, etc...they should be in jail.

There are 2 ways to look at it, you can live in fear that any little thing may trigger a wave of gun bans, don't open carry, they will ban it, don't sell RFID locks, they will ban everything else, don't clarify a grey area law with the ATF, they will ban it, a single nutcase shoots a few people, they will ban everything etc. Poo happens, either we fight for our rights, and can keep them secure, or we can't, and if we can't , what is keeping them from pushing a total ban. I don't fear the legislature looking at this tech, and going about banning everything else, I fear all those who have fallen for battered gun owner syndrome that that think they can, and we won't be able to stop them.

csanc123 · May 2, 2014

Fishguy said:
Andy didn't do himself any favors with that circus stunt video. While I agree with his sentiment and stand with him, for whatever it is worth, I was embarrassed by the ranting video.

I am also embarrassed by our community and how we reacted yesterday. This situation is a giant poo sandwich that we all had a hand making right along with the antis.

Sometimes, we are our own worst enemy.

I only concur for this reason:

When MSM gets a whiff of the video they are going to take a snippet and report it out of context.

"shoot the politicians who make these f'in laws" <---this is going to hurt.

HT4 · May 2, 2014

Good gawd damn! This is f-ed up beyond belief and getting out of control. Andy, stay strong. Those who know you and Engage would never question your commitment.

Who's making the "I stand with Brutus" tee shirts?

Silverlode · May 2, 2014

csanc123 said:
I only concur for this reason:

When MSM gets a whiff of the video they are going to take a snippet and report it out of context.

"shoot the politicians who make these f'in laws" <---this is going to hurt.

I think it is good to remind politicians why the 2A exists.

csanc123 · May 2, 2014

Silverlode said:
I think it is good to remind politicians why the 2A exists.

We aren't reminding them of anything as they don't understand the meaning of 2A.

SWO Daddy · May 2, 2014

csanc123 said:
I only concur for this reason:

When MSM gets a whiff of the video they are going to take a snippet and report it out of context.

"shoot the politicians who make these f'in laws" <---this is going to hurt.

Yeah...I would recommend deleting that video.

DC-W · May 2, 2014

SWO Daddy said:
Yeah...I would recommend deleting that video.

Too late for that. The Washington Post already has it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...4efa48-d14d-11e3-937f-d3026234b51c_story.html

But after hundreds of protests on his store’s Facebook page and online forums — a repeat of what Oak Tree faced — Raymond released a long video on the Facebook page saying he had received death threats and would not sell the gun. He apologized and took responsibility for the decision. He had sold none of the smart guns and would not, he said.

clandestine · May 2, 2014

Let me make it clear that my comments in this thread are of mine and mine alone. They do not represent my former employer or any of his employees views. I wanted to make it crystal clear before any butt hurt f*** face gets his panties in a twist and calls the shop to complain about my comments on MDS. I wanted to put that out there.

Hang in there Andy.

For those criticizing Andy for the content of his video should probably go look in the mirror. I guess all of the people who would take issue with him smoking or drinking have never went to a party or bar after work. Those complaining about his politician comments have probably never said anything about our founding fathers, patriotism, taking our 2a rights back, or refreshing tree of liberty. At least Andy has the balls to do these things openly with full disclosure and not beingthe anonymity of the internet.

Silverlode · May 2, 2014

csanc123 said:
We aren't reminding them of anything as they don't understand the meaning of 2A.

OK, then we are educating them.

Fishguy · May 2, 2014

Silverlode said:
I think it is good to remind politicians why the 2A exists.

I don't think that is the way to do it.
- alcohol + firearms
- profanity laced
- claims to have been drinking
- waving a (safe, obviously unloaded) rifle while implying what he implied.

I get the emotion. It is justified. I get the sentiment and I don't disagree. I don't know him outside of a couple interactions at his shop over the years, but I think he is sincere. The video was a bad idea, that's all I'm saying.

And again, the stupid from some of us in reaction to his decision to sell the guns; also very bad form.

jpo183 · May 2, 2014

DC-W said:
So what you're saying is, is that it's OK for Engage to sell them via request... WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO.

I don't see anyone crying for our FFLs to stop selling HBARs or AR10s because the MGA might take notice and ban them.

There's no logic in this argument at all.

No I am saying Engage can sell whatever they want to however they want to, its their business.

If there is a "demand" for the product, which I doubt but could be wrong, then he would get the request by new customers through other media channels other than our own.

I think publicizing this technology by a FFL, that we should all be able to agree is bad for 2A. That is where I disagree with what Engage did.

The people calling him, etc with threats are morons.

As far as the argument of "if the technology is there it will be required regardless if FFLs have it" is flawed.

There are a few ways to kill a product in sales, one is called a boycott. By boycotting a product the market segment dies and you can not "require" something to have that specific requirement if it does not exist. That would be a defacto ban.

I personally think this was a bad decisions from the get go and the results should have been expected. ....did we not see what happened to the Clippper's Owner not a few days ago?

This is technology that HURTS the 2A community, not helps. Getting backlash like this (not the death threats) should be expected. I understand Andy's thought on a potential new market group, however I think that was a bad miscalculation.

The way to win over anti-gun people is to introduce them to guns on a personal level, not through technology. I just found out I live in a completely liberal neighborhood (western MD, who would've thunk it), so what did I do. I invited several of the guys to go shooting. People that never shot before and are "fence sitters". They are excited to try it. That is what wins the fence sitters. Being a respectable, professional citizen base.

Traveler · May 2, 2014

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

Or ... you can't fix stupid. This appears to me to be the same group that believes we are not responsible for our choices.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/12/12...not-liable-for-deadly-drunk-driving-accident/

henn5849 · May 2, 2014

The clock already started in California when they received one into inventory. Read the law. Not Engages fault.

NRA Member
MD Hunter Safety Instructor
RSO

RoadDawg · May 2, 2014

peoples1234 said:
Andy and Engage are awesome, and his reasoning is perfect.

If anything, I am disappointed that he changed his mind. The sooner that the NJ law goes into effect, the sooner it can be challenged.

It's statements like this that scare me.

How do you not understand that the NJ law IS ALREADY IN EFFECT? Any challenge to that law does not need a sale to start it. It IS current law.

No offense but... This is like Pelosi and her comment about the ACA. "We need to pass this bill so we can find out what's in it."

I fear that the lack of understanding of laws will doom our 2A rights no matter how hard we fight to keep them. :sad20:

peoples1234 · May 2, 2014

RoadDawg said:
It's statements like this that scare me.

How do you not understand that the NJ law IS ALREADY IN EFFECT? Any challenge to that law does not need a sale to start it. It IS current law.

No offense but... This is like Pelosi and her comment about the ACA. "We need to pass this bill so we can find out what's in it."

I fear that the lack of understanding of laws will doom our 2A rights no matter how hard we fight to keep them.

It may already be law, but it can't be challenged because no one has standing to file suit. Until it affects someone, they don't have standing to sue. The law can't be voided unless it can be challenged.

501st · May 2, 2014

Unfortunately, Andy's video has reached those who will manipulate it:

pbharvey · May 2, 2014

DC-W said:
Too late for that. The Washington Post already has it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...4efa48-d14d-11e3-937f-d3026234b51c_story.html

With a direct link and mention of MDS

Engage to sell so called "smart gun"

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