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  • Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,522
    I'm not the oldest guy on MDS, but I've been shooting and reloading since the late 1970's. US Army, IHMSA, IPSC and now mainly just for fun.

    I was reading thru a back-issue of Shooting Illustrated about the Sig P320/M17 the other day and I got to wondering:

    How long will it be till safeties on a striker fired gun becomes the next "big thing?" It may not. But think about people who buy guns. Forty years ago not many of us were interested in double stack 9mm DA/SA semi-auto pistols. Then, the FBI said "9mm is the greatest thing since sliced bread". Then everyone was buying them. LE, US military and a bunch of shooters who previously had little use for that type of firearm.

    Then, Glock came along. No thumb safeties. Plastic frame. While the US Military didn't jump on it LE departments across the country did. What happened? People who never would have bought a plastic framed semi-auto without safeties started buying them, too. For years people laughed at guns with safeties as being unnecessary because a Glock doesn't have a safety (just buy Glocks, right?)

    Then, the US military wanted something to replace the Beretta. And the replacement had to have safeties. Even Glock offered trial pistols with safeties. The pistol that won the competition is a polymer framed striker-fired pistol with things that didn't use to be necessary: external safeties!

    Now people are buying them up. All over the internet forums you see pictures of the new plastic framed semi-autos with safeties that people bought. Did they buy them because they are really better? Or because that's what the military is using?

    How long will it be before other companies, who make polymer framed semi-auto striker fired guns, start making them with safeties to get in on that market-craze? Yes, I know we've been able to get M&P's with safeties for years.

    Might not happen. But, it seems to me, people like it when the gun company marketing departments tell them what to buy, along with the military, LE, video games and pop culture (movies, TV).

    I mean, LOOK at red dots on pistols. How long ago was that just not seen on EDC guns? Now many of the handgun manufacturers are making factory pistols set up for red dots or coming right out of the box with a red dot already installed. :wtf:

    It's a big part of what fascinates about the gun business. In 2016, Ruger came out with the Precision Rifle and it flew off dealer's shelves as fast as they could get them in stock, lots of times at full MSRP or above if it was in 6.5 Creedmore. Was that because Ruger recognized that Precision Rifle competition was becoming more and more popular or was it a calculated risk on their part?

    2017 was the year of the mouse gun: Sig P365, HK VP9SK, Walther PPQ-SC, etc. Suddenly, everyone had to have an easily concealable, ten-round + capacity sub-compact 9mm pistol and gun manufacturers were happy to oblige. I'm guilty. I ran out and got one, too.
     

    Invicta

    Active Member
    Sep 16, 2018
    255
    Never. Much for the same reason that most citizens use hollow points for self defense even though the military doesn't. What is 'required' for military/gov may not be the best thing for a use outside of those specific functions.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,876
    There have always been a subset of people with preference for a safety . A minority , but not tiny .

    I predict a modest upswing of availability , but not a takeover .
     
    May 19, 2016
    98
    I know what you are saying. People follow trends. And some collectors buy stuff just to have it. I think the red dot trend may stem from people seeing how much custom milled slides cost, and if they need it because of failing vision it would be nice to have. It's still an option for most people.

    That is the one thing I don't understand about Glock. They don't have to make something new as much as let people build a gun based on options they alread have. Like a Glock with front slide serrations with MOS with a TB. They sell all of that stuff, but just as a seperate model.

    Automakers let you special order vehicles with all of the factory options, why can't the firearm industry. It's already bad enough that you can't test drive guns (most shops don't have a range). We should at least get what we want when the factory makes it.
     

    Trekker

    Active Member
    Oct 20, 2011
    687
    Harford County
    Some people are influenced to get a certain product because they are familiar with it. They used a certain firearm while they were in the service, and after leaving they want something similar out of familiarity and nostalgia. For others, marketing convinces them that a product is what they want, especially if it is associated with an institution or individual they respect (military, police, notable figure like movie/TV/video game character). Brand name products at premium prices would not sell so well otherwise.

    So, I do not know about external safeties on striker fired guns as being the next "big thing", but unless it becomes viewed and decried as something irritating to avoid, I expect that it will see an upsurge in representation due to service members getting used to it, and civilians wanting a firearm such as the military is currently using. It may well be that some customers are not looking for this feature specifically, but it is just purchased as part of the overall package for the striker fired guns that are produced going forward.

    There will be some that go counter to the trend, since the closest I come to a polymer firearm is my AR, and my preference otherwise is oriented towards steel and wood firearms.
     

    Pale Ryder

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 12, 2009
    6,232
    Millersville
    Military always dumbs things down. Just the way it is. The 1911 didn't have a thumb safety until the Army wanted it with one. I like safeties, also like auto ignition that use a key instead of push button. Guess I'm old.
     

    IX-3

    Active Member
    Aug 21, 2018
    424
    Eastern Shore, MD
    I don’t think they will. The general public can choose any gun they want based on size, features, safety/no safety, etc. based on their comfort level. The military has to issue the same firearm to everyone no matter their skill or comfort level with guns. Safer to give everyone a gun with a safety than to rely on the kid right out of high school who has never fired a gun to have common sense.

    The only reason Sig is offering the M17 and M17 Bravo to civilians with a safety is because people want the gun the military is using. Had they not won the contract we probably never would have seen a P320 with a safety.

    Glock didn’t keep the safety on the G19X because they didn’t win. Would they have kept the safety on the civilian model if they had won? Probably not because they are known for not having external safeties and people want that.

    I don’t think we will ever see a day when more than a few polymer guns have safeties, even as an optional feature like the M&P’s. The companies know people buy their products so they don’t have to deal with an external safety. If they suddenly start throwing them on all of their models customers are just going to jump ship to a brand that doesn’t have an external safety.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Whatever pistol the military adopts is always going to have some short-term trend impact. Back when the 92FS was the new hotness, you saw a whole passel of pistols with slide safety/decockers (including the Tanfo and derivs, the S&W guns, the Desert Eagle, etc.) come out. People got their hands on them, realized the concept kinda sucked after a while, and moved on with their lives. In this case, it's not even like manual safeties went away, it's just that some guns didn't have them (which was a new thing unto itself).

    Second, there are trends, and there's also progress. Hot take:
    1. Manual safety: trend. We'll see more guns with that option, but it won't become the new standard.
    2. Optics support: progress. The cost for adding this is minimal to a gun, and optics give much increased capability at 25yds and beyond.
    3. Threaded barrels: progress. Support for comps and cans out of the box is big. All major pistol releases will have threaded barrels at the start.
    4. Modular serialized FCG: progress. The upsides to doing this are too huge, especially in terms of selling more accessories.
    5. 9mm replacing .380 in mouse guns: progress, but may not be as beneficial to end users as some may think.
     

    Neutron

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2014
    1,531
    severna park
    I have the P320 compact with no safety. I've asked Sig if they could add the safety to my existing pistol. Their reply has been that it is being considered and to check back occasionally. Personally, I would like to have the safety if I'm ever going to carry that gun. I carry a PPK now when I'm in a friendly state (SC CCW permit) mainly because it's small and has the de-cocker/safety. If I carried every day I might get used to the P320 with no safety and one in the chamber.
     

    Neutron

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2014
    1,531
    severna park
    Just had another thought about the P320 safety. Those of you that have the P320 and would like to have the safety added should call Sig and let them know you want it added. I don't believe they have an e-mail address for such things. They like to speak to their customers on the phone. A few phone calls may persuade them to act on the modification.
     

    IX-3

    Active Member
    Aug 21, 2018
    424
    Eastern Shore, MD
    I have the P320 compact with no safety. I've asked Sig if they could add the safety to my existing pistol. Their reply has been that it is being considered and to check back occasionally. Personally, I would like to have the safety if I'm ever going to carry that gun. I carry a PPK now when I'm in a friendly state (SC CCW permit) mainly because it's small and has the de-cocker/safety. If I carried every day I might get used to the P320 with no safety and one in the chamber.

    They’re probably waiting to see how well the M17 and M17 Bravo sell before spending the money to modify the molds for the grip frames. No point in spending the money if the two models with safeties don’t sell well.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,876
    The S&W's, et al, had slide mounted safeties long before the M9 era . They date back to the pre war Walthers . ( At least in the context of popular DA/SA .)
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,230
    Montgomery County
    As far as I can tell, Springfield is doing a growing business in both their 9mm and .45 flavors of the XD-E ... a single stack, polymer-framed DA/SA CCW piece sporting a safety/de-cocker. Have one. Like it a lot. Of note, it's got a hammer, not a striker (which makes me like it even more).
     

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,447
    MD
    I don't really see external safeties becoming a big "must have" accessory. Plastic handguns are here to stay until someone makes something that's a serious upgrade over steel or polymer. I don't see anything changing shooters' opinions that a safety isn't required for those guns to be safe to handle.
     

    K-43

    West of Morning Side
    Oct 20, 2010
    1,881
    PG
    I think it's not going to be a fad, but stay a preference for some. Mainly I find that people who grew up with the 1911 and Beretta in the Military tend to prefer the external safety. Probably because they are use to having one. At least among people I know. Far from a marketing survey, just a small observation. Your subset may be far different.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,687
    I like safeties, also like auto ignition that use a key instead of push button. Guess I'm old.

    You may be old, but not old enough. My mother's 1940 Ford convertible had a push-button starter switch.

    Also had the hi/low beam footswitch selector. And a manual transmission.

    Too many controls for anyone born after 1999.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Personally I think red dots on pistols will continue to grow in popularity. Same for threaded barrels for comps and suppressors. Those and maybe polymer telescoping ammo will be the big things. Safeties on plastic fantastics, not so sure. They may become more prevalent, but I don't think they will be dominant or ubiquitous. Personally I do not care for safeties on pistols that are safe to use without them, so maybe that is my prejudice clouding my foresight.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,561
    Harford County, Maryland
    I cut my teeth mostly on double action revolvers and Mk Ruger 22’s. I have no issue with active and passive safety based guns. It always comes down to the manuals of arms. I’ve shot 1911’s for a good number of years. Now shooting a Block. I have been shooting them side by side, first a 3-5 shot group from one then same from the other. I do this to instill grip and feel recognition. I can pick on up and immediately go to proper manual of arms. Did the same with a P-85 MK II Ruger years back. Subsequently, I really don’t see manual safeties on striker pistols becoming a heavy sales phenomenon. Original sound designs don’t need it. I do think manual safety options will integrate into the market.

    Mini dots on all many format pistol may be here to stay for a few reasons. Technology marches on, older eyes don’t see as well, they are fast close in, and many do not care to learn real iron sight discipline.
     

    herkybird72

    2A Defender
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 1, 2011
    421
    Freedomland,NC
    I have the P320 compact with no safety. I've asked Sig if they could add the safety to my existing pistol. Their reply has been that it is being considered and to check back occasionally. Personally, I would like to have the safety if I'm ever going to carry that gun. I carry a PPK now when I'm in a friendly state (SC CCW permit) mainly because it's small and has the de-cocker/safety. If I carried every day I might get used to the P320 with no safety and one in the chamber.

    I purchased my 320 compact with a manual safety because it was available. Sig told me they made them because some states required it. This was before the M17. In the context of this thread I did so not because of any trend but because I was used to having one. I carried the 1911 and M9 on active duty and for CCW all my pistols had one. I started carrying a P365 in May and it has taking some getting used to.
     

    TexDefender

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2017
    1,572
    People are funny, and their tastes change as time moves forward. The SIG P250 was modular well before the M17/P320, things always tend to come full circle. When a firearm company wins a contract for our (U.S.) armed services it starts the tipping of a series of dominoes. And such contracts has an influence on the market and people's tastes. Winning this military contracts exposes millions of soldiers, Sailors and Airman to their product and designs. Law Enforcement departments not wanting to test new weapons adopts what the military chooses. And because much of the public has served (well used to serve) in large number they tend to obtain what they are familiar with. I personally prefer a Safety, why I'm used to having one through out my military and civilian career. Have I had handguns that I like and use that don't have one? Yes, I love my P-226 DA/SA Legion. I'm all about options.
     

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