Fostech echo trigger

Fostech outdoors, the creators of the bumpski stock and the origin 12 badazz shotgun is coming out with a new trigger system called the " echo trigger".

The trigger is suppose to be a really good crisp conventional trigger with a pull weight of around 4 lbs. But offers a third position called echo mode.

Echo is similar to the franklin armory binary firing system. The trigger will fire one round on the pull and once again on release. This trigger is already BATFE approved and is suppose to be in production for release in April.

The trigger comes in a cassette configuration , with a replacement selector and drops in to most receivers.

MSR is around 500 bucks.

So there is going to be a competition amongst trigger manufacturers on this system. Prices should go down as performance improves. Competition is good for the consumer.


Info was shared by a friend attending shots show 2016 .

Will it be prone to hammer follow though??

BradMacc82 said:

Will it be prone to hammer follow though??

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Anything like this should be prone to hammer follow through. Unless you can speed up the action of the bolt.

In real m16s, the cyclic rate is determined by the action of the bolt coming into complete battery and as that engages the autosear. These systems can easily go out of synch and the rate of fire is dependent upon the shooters and is totally independent on the time it takes to cycle the action.

So....... slow is actually fast.

Do they have a release date yet ?

To develop a detailed understanding of the Full-Auto AR15/M16/M4 compared to new designed Semi-Auto function AR15 Trigger Systems that have entered the US civilian gun market in the last few years, lets start with the basic principle comparison:

1st) Cycle Rates and Timing of Full-Auto AR15/M16/M4s. To determine adequate bolt carrier timing to full-auto sear engagement, the bolt carrier must engage full-auto sear no sooner than 1/8” before bolt carrier closure and no later than 3/16” of bolt carrier closure.

If bolt carrier engages full-auto sear before 1/8” to full breech bolt closure the hammer will hit under bolt carrier applying very little to no energy to firing pin and primer detonation.

If bolt carrier engages full-auto sear after 3/16” of bolt carrier closure releasing the hammer late in the cycle rate will allow bolt carrier bounce from barrel extension producing Locking Bolt Head release before firing pin strikes the primer with enough energy to detonate. Basically the hammer will hit under the bolt carrier again absorbing hammer impact, but on the rearward bolt carrier motion produced from bolt bounce recoil.

Note: Full-Auto Cycle Rates pending on model number series and condition of Full-Auto AR15/M16/M4 is 750rpm. Earlier 5.56 caliber Armalite and Colt Full-Auto AR15s Model 601 to Model 656 cycle rates averaged 850 rpm in new condition. But after 1000 rounds fired cycle rates increase from normal operational wear beyond 800 rpm.

2nd) Echo Trigger System: A similar trigger release design was developed in the late 80s using a spring wire between existing semi-auto trigger and semi-auto sear. The wire spring would disengage the semi-auto sear from hammer as the trigger moved forward producing double tap function.

This particular design was prone to excessive wear resulting in limited wire spring life span, but nonetheless it did work for estimated 1000 to 1500 rounds of double tap live fire.

Another issue with the older double tap trigger design was the shooter’s limited option to double tap firing only. If you pulled the trigger for the first shot and didn’t require a second shot upon trigger release the shooter had to hold down the trigger while unloading the magazine and released the live round from chamber by cycling the charging handle to prevent second round fire. The New Echo Trigger System offers a safe method of disengagement from second round shots.

Basic principles of fast shooting Semi-Auto AR15 without modification: The average person can achieve 320 rounds per minute of live fire by pulling the semi-auto AR15 trigger fast as possible. Well, unless you’re Jerry Miculek averaging 380 rpm. A fine tuned trigger with a fast rest will allow a higher fire rate average pending on shooter’s experience, but 350 to 380 are generally max for professionals.

Without actually viewing the break down of an Echo Trigger System I’m expecting there is a new designed machine link between Semi-Auto Sear and Hammer with a fast reset that is activated by Safety Selector…? Based on my expectations, if you can achieve 320 rpm rapid fire semi-auto you should have the ability to produce 640 rpm by method of Echo Trigger System.

Other new trigger designs for example: Elfman and Tac-Con are designed with super fast reset and light pressure semi-auto sear springs. Most likely the Echo Trigger System has incorporated similar design added to the double tap machined link feature.

How does this play into semi-auto bolt cycle rate? The Full-Auto Cycle Rate window of 1/8” to 3/16” is actually very large especially considering bolt carrier speed and easily obtainable within double tap Trigger control function. If a customer experienced reliability failures before or beyond the full-auto window gap this also addressed by methods of Gas Pulse Recoil Pressures, Buffer Weights, Hydraulic Buffers, and Recoil Spring Pressure adjustments, but if your AR15 is a “Mil-Spec Build” I seriously doubt the Echo Trigger System will fail.

As for SBRs or 300 Blackout ARs may require minor modification, which is widely available on today’s civilian gun market, For example: adjustable gas blocks, Hydraulic Buffers, Extra power recoil spring, Piston systems, specialized gas tube systems, and barrel gas port diameter.

During the late 80s and early 90s Shorty M16s was the Mac Daddy for NFA shooters and that desire continues to this day, but many of us were frustrated with unreliable function and very few master it in the beginning. Once they did they became well known in the NFA community and demand for their gunsmith abilities continues today. I believe the same answers that were discovered years ago would come back into play for SBR and Echo Trigger combination.

Well That's a hell of a first post.

From what I have read, Fostec is licensed to use the patent for this design. Franklin Armory is supposedly using the design without consent of the patent holder.

Interesting enough. I suppose it's a cheaper way to get "close" to FA, but it's still expensive. Maybe a year from now it would be worth another look at. First, price may come down a little bit, and second, it would allow time to pass so ATF won't change their mind for some BS made up reason.

Should be getting close to the release of the Fostech Echo trigger. Has anyone heard anything else about them? Actual release date? Review?

One question, these are supposed to not have hammer follow and my guess is due to the lever on the back of the trigger pack acting like a sear to not let the hammer drop until the bolt is (or close to) full forward. Would you need a full auto style bolt carrier to make this operate correctly?


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Nice new video today. Geez I want one. And an endless supply of ammo.

I wish I hadn't pre-ordered this a while ago as I wanted this for my .22 fun gun; since you have to use their bolt carrier it looks like that plan is out.

It does look like a rather reliable trigger though, so that's a good thing. Eliminating hammer follow through is probably the most important part of a trigger system like this.

GeorgeSSR said:

I wish I hadn't pre-ordered this a while ago as I wanted this for my .22 fun gun; since you have to use their bolt carrier it looks like that plan is out.

It does look like a rather reliable trigger though, so that's a good thing. Eliminating hammer follow through is probably the most important part of a trigger system like this.

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I'd buy it off you when you get it, let me know.

jimbobborg said:

I'd buy it off you when you get it, let me know.

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Appreciate the offer, but I have a couple of other lowers I can run these in with .223. It just means mag dumps will be a little more expensive.

Since it uses a proprietary bolt carrier, is 9mm out of the question?

jimbobborg said:

Since it uses a proprietary bolt carrier, is 9mm out of the question?

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I don't know but I am going to say it probably just uses a standard auto bolt carrier.


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That would be a cool set up in 9mm !!! :-)

TinCuda said:

I don't know but I am going to say it probably just uses a standard auto bolt carrier.


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The length of the solid portion of the underside rear of the carrier looks longer than an auto carrier. Looks to hit the secondary disconnector and allow it to fire when in battery, but prevents the hammer from releasing before then, so no hammer follow jam. Don't think it could work with a 22 kit, but by milling the underside of a 9mm carrier to the correct length, or welding a bar across most any mil-or civvie carrier to hit the sear release, will probably work.

jimbobborg said:

Since it uses a proprietary bolt carrier, is 9mm out of the question?

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It is my understanding that the typical 9mm AR uses a different bolt carrier that is combined with the bolt. While it is not out of the question, it is likely that a proprietary 9 mm bolt is needed. It is unclear what modifications would be needed. I get the impression that the proprietary bolt is part of the mechanism that prevents hammer follow. The binary trigger will still work without any bolt carrier modifications, but the anti hammer follow functions may not work properly.

alucard0822 said:

The length of the solid portion of the underside rear of the carrier looks longer than an auto carrier. Looks to hit the secondary disconnector and allow it to fire when in battery, but prevents the hammer from releasing before then, so no hammer follow jam. Don't think it could work with a 22 kit, but by milling the underside of a 9mm carrier to the correct length, or welding a bar across most any mil-or civvie carrier to hit the sear release, will probably work.

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OK, I re-watched the video and I will eat my hat if the bolt carrier is anything but a standard auto bolt carrier.

The .22 converstion bolt does not travel back far enough to interact with the "sear/lever/trip" that the echo trigger uses to prevent the hammer follow.

jcutonilli said:

It is my understanding that the typical 9mm AR uses a different bolt carrier that is combined with the bolt. While it is not out of the question, it is likely that a proprietary 9 mm bolt is needed. It is unclear what modifications would be needed. I get the impression that the proprietary bolt is part of the mechanism that prevents hammer follow. The binary trigger will still work without any bolt carrier modifications, but the anti hammer follow functions may not work properly.

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I do not own a 9mm AR rifle but, I would think that if you do not need a special fire control group to make the 9mm upper work, the echo trigger would work fine. That is as long as you use an auto 9mm bolt carrier.


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