HQL Completely Online Training Exemption

JamesH · Nov 9, 2014

It looks like the law says you're exempt from training if you "lawfully own a regulated firearm". It doesn't say anything about "prior to 10/1/13". Since C&R handguns are "regulated firearms" that are HQL exempt, I would think you could buy a C&R handgun today and use it for HQL training exemption. IANAL, but the law is straightforward to read for yourself.

Mark75H · Nov 9, 2014

JamesH said:
It looks like the law says you're exempt from training if you "lawfully own a regulated firearm". It doesn't say anything about "prior to 10/1/13". Since C&R handguns are "regulated firearms" that are HQL exempt, I would think you could buy a C&R handgun today and use it for HQL training exemption. IANAL, but the law is straightforward to read for yourself.

You would have to voluntarily register your C&R handgun

JamesH · Nov 9, 2014

Mark75H said:
You would have to voluntarily register your C&R handgun

I can think of worse things. Besides, if it was bought in Maryland, it's already on a 77R.

tsmith1499 · Dec 18, 2014

JamesH said:
It looks like the law says you're exempt from training if you "lawfully own a regulated firearm". It doesn't say anything about "prior to 10/1/13". Since C&R handguns are "regulated firearms" that are HQL exempt, I would think you could buy a C&R handgun today and use it for HQL training exemption. IANAL, but the law is straightforward to read for yourself.

I think you need to check your info. I have had several C&R handguns sent directly to my home. They are not regulated.

JamesH · Dec 18, 2014

tsmith1499 said:
I think you need to check your info. I have had several C&R handguns sent directly to my home. They are not regulated.

They are part of the definition of regulated firearms by Maryland statute. That you were able to buy them legally interstate by virtue of your C&R license doesn't change the fact that you lawfully own what Maryland considers a regulated firearm. They are HQL exempt, and you can get them out of state with a C&R, but they are still within the Maryland definition of regulated firearms. Thus, owning one should, in my not-a-lawyer opinion, exempt a person from the HQL training requirement.

tsmith1499 · Dec 18, 2014

JamesH said:
They are part of the definition of regulated firearms by Maryland statute. That you were able to buy them legally interstate by virtue of your C&R license doesn't change the fact that you lawfully own what Maryland considers a regulated firearm. They are HQL exempt, and you can get them out of state with a C&R, but they are still within the Maryland definition of regulated firearms. Thus, owning one should, in my not-a-lawyer opinion, exempt a person from the HQL training requirement.

You would have to show me the part of the statute that states this. As REGULATED by definition means I could not get it other than through an FFL and have to do all of the steps as if I was buying a modern firearm that is truly regulated. Having it shipped directly to my home without Md's knowledge would by definition not be a regulated purchase. Maybe someone else can shine some light on this. Oh Nate!!!

JamesH · Dec 18, 2014

tsmith1499 said:
You would have to show me the part of the statute that states this. As REGULATED by definition means I could not get it other than through an FFL and have to do all of the steps as if I was buying a modern firearm that is truly regulated. Having it shipped directly to my home without Md's knowledge would by definition not be a regulated purchase. Maybe someone else can shine some light on this. Oh Nate!!!

Public Safety article, Title 5, § 5-101. Definitions
Regulated firearm
(r) “Regulated firearm” means:
(1) a handgun;
[ or a list of scary rifles ]

§ 5-117.1. Handgun qualification license required to sell, rent, or transfer handguns
Application of section
(a) This section does not apply to:
(4) a person purchasing, renting, or receiving an antique, curio, or relic firearm, as defined in federal law or in determinations published by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The exception to the definition of "handgun" provided in 5-117.1a4 for C&R guns proves the rule in 5-101r1 that C&R handguns are included in the definition of handguns, and thus Regulated firearms. (This, by the way, is what the phrase "the exception that proves the rule" actually means.)

You can also confirm that C&R handguns are "regulated firearms" by trying to buy one from a Maryland gun dealer. Although you won't have to have an HQL, you will still have to file a 77-R and wait 7 days. Since the 7-day waiting period only applies to regulated firearms, C&R handguns must be regulated firearms.

§ 5-124. Secondary transactions
Seven-day waiting period
(a)(1) A person who is not a licensee may not sell, rent, transfer, or purchase a regulated firearm until after 7 days following the time a firearm application is executed by the firearm applicant, in triplicate, and the original is forwarded by a licensee to the Secretary.

You can also look at the 77-R form (Application and Affidavit to Purchase a Regulated Firearm) and see that it has a check-box specifically for buying a C&R gun. If C&R handguns were not regulated firearms, there would be no need for such a check-box on the form.

My whole point is that owning a C&R handgun (bought legally, before or after Oct 1 2013) should, under the law, exempt you from the HQL training. All that's needed is that you "lawfully own a regulated firearm" (§ 5-117.1e6). Not that you needed to own it pre-Oct 2013.

swinokur · Dec 18, 2014

If you buy out of state, it can be shipped directly to you on your 03 FFL license. If you buy in state, it has to go through MSP as a regulated firearm. In my non legal opinion it would be legal to buy out of state and use that firearm to be training exempt, just as owning a firearm you bought out of state and brought to MD would be legal to use to be training exempt.

"legally possessed a regulated firearm" is the operative phrase.

IANAL.

tsmith1499 · Dec 18, 2014

I stand corrected. I know about buying IN Md. I just didn't think it was considered "regulated" when I can buy it unregulated with my 03 C&R license. You got me!! Thank you for the education. I appreciate it. Always learn something from this group everyday.

tsmith1499 · Dec 18, 2014

swinokur said:
If you buy out of state, it can be shipped directly to you on your 03 FFL license. If you buy in state, it has to go through MSP as a regulated firearm. In my non legal opinion it would be legal to buy out of state and use that firearm to be training exempt, just as owning a firearm you bought out of state and brought to MD would be legal to use to be training exempt.

"legally possessed a regulated firearm" is the operative phrase.

IANAL.

I should have used the serial number from my 1925 Nagant revolver when I applied for my HQL. That might have had them scratching their heads LOL !!

CypherPunk · Dec 18, 2014

Maybe there is a checkbox on the 77r for "voluntary registration" purposes?

Stoli · Jan 19, 2015

Thank you NateIU10. I've done exactly what you described. Based on MD PUBLIC SAFETY § 5-117.1(e), and Md. Nat. Res. Code Ann. § 10-301.1(c)(3), the MSP should accept and approve my HQL exemption application.

FWIW, the Texas Online Education class was insightful, and I can see why this can be used in place of the MD HQL Class.

I will update this thread once I hear from the MSP.

Thanks again Nate.

woodstock · Jan 19, 2015

Stoli said:
Thank you NateIU10. I've done exactly what you described. Based on MD PUBLIC SAFETY § 5-117.1(e), and Md. Nat. Res. Code Ann. § 10-301.1(c)(3), the MSP should accept and approve my HQL exemption application.

FWIW, the Texas Online Education class was insightful, and I can see why this can be used in place of the MD HQL Class.

I will update this thread once I hear from the MSP.

Thanks again Nate.

best of luck. please keep us informed.

Brooklyn · Jan 20, 2015

This looks like a total end run around the training required.

Must watch closely.

huntman21014 · Jan 21, 2015

I was training exempt but my girlfriend successfully used the all online Texas hunter safety course to get her HQL. Online we attached a letter stating the law that allowed for a different state's hunter safety course and attached the card that was printed out after completing it online. She got her HQL 21 days later without a peep from MSP

NateIU10 · Jan 23, 2015

huntman21014 said:
I was training exempt but my girlfriend successfully used the all online Texas hunter safety course to get her HQL. Online we attached a letter stating the law that allowed for a different state's hunter safety course and attached the card that was printed out after completing it online. She got her HQL 21 days later without a peep from MSP

Great to hear! I'm glad this post has been helpful for others.

Stoli · Jan 27, 2015

woodstock said:
best of luck. please keep us informed.

hi again.

all but NICS is complete. I applied 1/21. Got a call from MSP to verify my place of birth.

thx N8

NateIU10 · Feb 4, 2015

Stoli said:
hi again.

all but NICS is complete. I applied 1/21. Got a call from MSP to verify my place of birth.

thx N8

Not a problem. I've now met quite a few people (including myself) that have used this to get their HQL.

Rack&Roll · Feb 4, 2015

CypherPunk said:
Maybe there is a checkbox on the 77r for "voluntary registration" purposes?

Yes there is.

The insane thing is that every registration of a handgun bought at a MD gun store is called "Voluntary Registration". Except, if you opt not to volunteer, they won't let you have it. Splain that to me...

Panzer Radeo · Feb 8, 2015

If i had not already owned a bunch of regulated firearms (AKs and handguns) before Oct 1st, this would be amazing news for me. I know it'll be for others. Which is why I will be spreading this around like wildfire.

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