Straight wall cartridges in slug gun counties
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What would the trial test consist of? No one was killed by a stray bullet this year so it passes?
The true test would be done with ballistics. Comparing muzzle loaders and shotguns of different calibers and loads then comparing them to the .450 or the .350 ballistics would be more accurate. Trusting MD to try to get the data would impossible in my opinion though.
Talbot county is a shotgun only county but you can run some hot .45 cal loads in a ML that would compare to a heavy (180gr) .30 cal bullet in velocity, like in the 2250-2350fps range.
And across the river Caroline County is a rifle county as of this year
RuralRifleGuy
Active Member
Didn't know that. QA doesn't allow rifle hunting and I wasn't going to go try and find someplace to hunt all the way in Dorchester county, but Caroline is closer so I might need to buy some land there.
larr
Active Member
Who want's to go across the river...? I'm kidding.
I have a friend that let's me hunt on their farm for a few weekends of work a year so I stay in Talbot. It's a lot of dense wooded areas and some open fields. Furthest shot is probably 200yds. With a 12ga I try to keep it under 100yds. Things have worked out well in the past and a 1oz slug going 1250fps and has done the job so far.
I wish they still sold the H&R 20ga heavy barrel model. With 3" shells it's pretty much like a rifle only the follow ups are a tad slower. If you're a good shot you only need one anyway.
Song Dog
Active Member
Delaware has had great success with straight wall rifle case, the new 350 Legends from Ruger was "hot" seller this fall out of shops and witness accuracy on rifle range that was impressive to say the least. Some folks dropped the 450 for the 350 due to recoil and didn't loose killing power one bit.
Enough State's that have chosen the straight wall case including DE is a pathway to its success in Maryland's shotgun/muzzle loader counties. Delaware is strictly bolt action firearms, but the language is there to be copied for introduction as a Bill for Maryland General Assembly.
Now for those who thinks its a hurdle, you're wrong, many changes have been made over the years for hunting firearms; just an FYI the first muzzle loaders were flint and cap/ball now In-Line so changes in regs were done for improve rifle technology.
Best success for Bill in Kent, Talbot and Q.A. counties then other counties can opt in like the Sunday deer hunting years ago. It takes some of you to discuss with your Delegate to propose the Bill as legislative season begins in 2 weeks. Also DNR is having their 2 year regulation cycle either Jan or Feb so Deer biologist should be contact to discuss with stake holders.
If you want it, you can get there if you want to move beyond forum posts.
delaware_export
Ultimate Member
- Apr 10, 2018
- 3,208
Good info. As you note, the no semi’s had the guys in my crew using tc/break action scoped. Iirc.looked like a nice setup.
Rifle, Sabot Slug, Rifled Slug and 00B maximum danger range.
Some time back, I received a direct answer on the estimated maximum danger range of rifled slug, sabot slug, .44 magnum and 45-70 rounds from Winchester Ammunition:
X12RS15- Rifled Slug, 1 ounce @ 1600 fps: 1,068 Yards
X44MHSP2- .44 Mag. 240 gr. @ 1760 fps: 2,239 Yards
X4570H- .45-70 300 gr. @ 1880 fps: 2,291 Yards
SSP12- 12Ga. 385 gr. @ 1900 fps: 2,971 Yards
The Winchester Tech. recommended adding 200 to 300 additional yards to allow for velocity variations, temperature, wind conditions, etc.
Some of the latest sabot slug rounds have a superior ballistic coefficient and a resulting greater maximum danger range.
Some time back, I received a direct answer on the estimated maximum danger range of rifled slug, sabot slug, .44 magnum and 45-70 rounds from Winchester Ammunition:
X12RS15- Rifled Slug, 1 ounce @ 1600 fps: 1,068 Yards
X44MHSP2- .44 Mag. 240 gr. @ 1760 fps: 2,239 Yards
X4570H- .45-70 300 gr. @ 1880 fps: 2,291 Yards
SSP12- 12Ga. 385 gr. @ 1900 fps: 2,971 Yards
The Winchester Tech. recommended adding 200 to 300 additional yards to allow for velocity variations, temperature, wind conditions, etc.
Some of the latest sabot slug rounds have a superior ballistic coefficient and a resulting greater maximum danger range.
Before things went sideways, I think the OP was onto something. Sure, negligent 7.62 x39 can kill someone just as dead as a 12ga slug or .44mag...but, if straightwalled cartridges have been successful in other locations, it would make a great starting point here. There's no way the regs are going to be changed to allow all rifles all at once. Maybe they should, but it ain't gonna happen...this is MD...
(welcome to the party, pal). If straightwalled can get through, start there and expand. Let our side use some incrementalism, for once.
Would they consider .45-70 straight walled? It's tapered...but certainly not bottlenecked.
(also, I was under the impression that straightwalled cartridges, since they typically did not use high velocity spitzer bullets, were much less likely to ricochet...and that's why they were considered "safer")
(welcome to the party, pal). If straightwalled can get through, start there and expand. Let our side use some incrementalism, for once.Would they consider .45-70 straight walled? It's tapered...but certainly not bottlenecked.
(also, I was under the impression that straightwalled cartridges, since they typically did not use high velocity spitzer bullets, were much less likely to ricochet...and that's why they were considered "safer"
)
If it works in Kent and Sussex Counties in DE, it should work on all of the Eastern Shore. The fact that its being used in DE is probably the best arguement to the DNR
Maybe. Then again, this is Maryland. And in Maryland, everybody that isn't Maryland has to somehow be wrong.
Delaware uses bullet diameter and min/max case length. Maryland, if they were inclined to do anything at all, might follow suit. Or perhaps Maryland would want to use some blend of arbitrary (but known to Maryland) figures that they have some knowledge of and/or history with. Perhaps a "not to exceed" muzzle velocity (say, 1800 fps or less....a velocity typical of sabot slug velocity in use today....Foster lesser velocity so still ok). And must exceed certain muzzle energy (say, 1200 fpe....familiar to Maryland as a Maryland standard, and no change from today).
Would effectively allow for what would largely be certain pistol cartridges, in what is now shotgun only counties.
danb
dont be a dumbass
357 magnum from a 16 or 18" barrel can achieve 2000 fps or more.
350 legend is about 2300 fps.
Oh, there are no doubt certainly going to be exceptions. More than a few I'm sure. Maybe they add an equally arbitrary "pistol" cartridge designation. Or name a handful of allowable cartridges by name. Either is of course a can of worms by itself. Or maybe they use 2000 fps as the "magic" number. Or maybe they keep 1800, and say no to 110 or 125 grain. (I've personally not been able to drive 158 grain .357 within established maxes to 2000fps in a rifle. Maybe others have, or Buffalo Bore can do it with proprietary powders....I don't know. So maybe they say no bullet lighter than 158 grain? (Not that 158 grains is or should be a magic number, but they're going to use some more or less arbitrary standard any way you slice it).
But yeah, I'd like to see Maryland do something here.
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MD Bureaucrats LOVE cans o’ worms!
They look at stuff like this as justification to create things like (Roster) “Boards” ...
heck, if the straight-walled idea gains traction (and I hope it does) I can see DNR using it as justification to create a whole new Divi$ion ... maybe call it “the Metallic Hunting Research & Regulations Unit.” That oughta be good enough to create a score or more of positions to be filled by cronies.
“Old liberal pols never really go away in MD, they (and their ilk) just get hired by the State!”
Raineman
On the 3rd box
I would love to use a lever action.357 in shotgun counties. I’d be seriously happy.
Which would be my argument against the whole “bolt action only” idea.
Johnconlee
Ultimate Member
I would have to assume both. His past work on the rifle hunting and his current line of work for the arguing.Centerfire rifle hunting or, incessant argumentation?
Check out the savage 220F bolt action slug gun. It is a 20 gauge and better accuracy than the H&R. 2.5” groups at 200 with accutips.
Looks like straight-walled cartridges are legal in shotgun counties this year.
https://dnr.maryland.gov/Wildlife/Documents/Maryland_Guide_to_Hunting_and_Trapping_2020-2021.pdf
page 5 and 15
https://dnr.maryland.gov/Wildlife/Documents/Maryland_Guide_to_Hunting_and_Trapping_2020-2021.pdf
page 5 and 15
