Need help. Handloads keyholing/tumbling

gre24ene · Oct 16, 2015

I recently bought a 9mm Kel-Tec Sub2000 and my handloads seem to be keyholing/tumbling every couple rounds. The same handloads do great in all of my handguns. In my handguns the same handloads are achieving 2" groups @ 25 meters using a rest. My recipes for my handloads are:

124gr FMJ (Everglades Ammo)
3.9gr of Titegroup
1.145 C.O.L.
moderate crimp

147gr plated (Everglades Ammo)
3.3gr of Titegroup
1.150 C.O.L.
moderate crimp

I shot several rounds of the following ammo and the gun was dead nuts accurate:

115gr WWB
124gr Federal FMJ
135gr Hornady Critical Duty
147gr Sig Sauer Elite performance V-Crown

My handloads cycle the gun just fine, however I have noticed that the brass is dirtier than normal coming out of the Sub2000.

Admittedly, I am new to reloading so I would appreciate any help.

Thanks in advance.

DTG

iH8DemLibz · Oct 16, 2015

Bump up .5 grains on both recipes.

Everything else is in spec. Though your COAL is about .020 short, but that shouldn't have any affect on key holing.

Truth be told, some bores just hate some bullets. Try some Sierra, Hornady, and Speer bullets and see what happens.

My Browning .243 loves 100 grain Speer bullets with 1/2" groups at 100 yards. 100 grain Hornady and Sierra won't group worth a damn.

gre24ene · Oct 16, 2015

Isn't 1.169 C.O.L. the max length?

iH8DemLibz · Oct 16, 2015

gre24ene said:
Isn't 1.169 C.O.L. the max length?

Yup.

And you're a bit shy. But, again, shouldn't have an affect on key holing.

And the fact that other bullets of the same weight work fine leads me to believe it's the Everglade bullets.

And try some Unique powder. A great powder for light charges.

Traveler · Oct 16, 2015

COAL looks okay to me. Going to MAX COAL can cause issues feeding.

Titegroup burns pretty hot, and is not very friendly to new reloaders. The pros swear by it though.

I am a fan of WSF, HP38, and W231 for starters.

paxfish · Oct 16, 2015

Are there any little lines in the barrel that look kinda like this?

gre24ene · Oct 16, 2015

I have been reloading less than a year but have reloaded well over 15,000 rounds so far. I have heard that Titegroup is a fast burning powder and have heard several times that it can be a dangerous powder for beginners due to the dangers of double charging.

I measured the following rounds. And they are considerably shorter than my handloads.

147gr Sig Sauer Elite Performance = 1.102 C.O.L.
135gr Hornady Critical Duty = 1.114 C.O.L.

Could it be that my handloads are too long for the Sub2000? I don't have the rifle in front of me so I can't do a plunk test.

If my handloads are too long for the Sub2000 to chamber, and the heavy bolt of the Sub2000 is pushing the bullet farther into the case, would/could this cause the rounds to keyhole/tumble?

gre24ene · Oct 16, 2015

paxfish said:
Are there any little lines in the barrel that look kinda like this?

The Sub2000 uses traditional lands and grooves rifling. Unlike my H&K's or Walther PPQ which uses Polygonal rifling.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but I don't understand your question.

Traveler · Oct 16, 2015

gre24ene said:
I have been reloading less than a year but have reloaded well over 15,000 rounds so far. I have heard that Titegroup is a fast burning powder and have heard several times that it can be a dangerous powder for beginners due to the dangers of double charging.

I measured the following rounds. And they are considerably shorter than my handloads.

147gr Sig Sauer Elite Performance = 1.102 C.O.L.
135gr Hornady Critical Duty = 1.114 C.O.L.

Could it be that my handloads are too long for the Sub2000? I don't have the rifle in front of me so I can't do a plunk test.

If my handloads are too long for the Sub2000 to chamber, and the heavy bolt of the Sub2000 is pushing the bullet farther into the case, would/could this cause the rounds to keyhole/tumble?

Cool. Didn't know your experience level. Titegroup has a reputation of being smokey with some bullets too.

The plunk test sounds like a logical next choice.

The Lee factory crimp die solved some of my 9mm issues.

gre24ene · Oct 16, 2015

Thanks for your help. I am more than frustrated at this point.

I measured the diameter of the factory rounds and they both are .358. My handloads (everglades ammo) are .3575. Could the .0005 difference make a big difference in bullet stabilization?

Traveler · Oct 16, 2015

gre24ene said:
Thanks for your help. I am more than frustrated at this point.

I measured the diameter of the factory rounds and they both are .358. My handloads (everglades ammo) are .3575. Could the .0005 difference make a big difference in bullet stabilization?

I highly doubt it.

lx1x · Oct 16, 2015

gre24ene said:
I recently bought a 9mm Kel-Tec Sub2000 and my handloads seem to be keyholing/tumbling every couple rounds. The same handloads do great in all of my handguns. In my handguns the same handloads are achieving 2" groups @ 25 meters using a rest. My recipes for my handloads are:

124gr FMJ (Everglades Ammo)
3.9gr of Titegroup
1.145 C.O.L.
moderate crimp

147gr plated (Everglades Ammo)
3.3gr of Titegroup
1.150 C.O.L.
moderate crimp

I shot several rounds of the following ammo and the gun was dead nuts accurate:

115gr WWB
124gr Federal FMJ
135gr Hornady Critical Duty
147gr Sig Sauer Elite performance V-Crown

My handloads cycle the gun just fine, however I have noticed that the brass is dirtier than normal coming out of the Sub2000.

Admittedly, I am new to reloading so I would appreciate any help.

Thanks in advance.

DTG

124 gr berry plated at 4.0 tg runs about 1100 fps in my g34.
If I go up .1 grain.. It would keyhole. But runs fine with my other guns.

You may need to do trial and error with the sub2k.

It could also be bullet issue like somebody mentioned.

gre24ene · Oct 16, 2015

That was my guess.

Could it be that the bullet is being pushed back into the case, effectively ruining the crimp I put on the rounds? And by doing so there is basically no time for the internal pressure build up before the bullet is sent down the barrel.

If the above is true, would this 'possibly' explain the excessively dirty brass I am getting from my handloads. I know Titegroup is dirty, however the Sub2000 brass is a lot dirtier than any of my handgun brass.

Thanks for the feedback

gre24ene · Oct 16, 2015

lx1x said:
124 gr berry plated at 4.0 tg runs about 1100 fps in my g34.
If I go up .1 grain.. It would keyhole. But runs fine with my other guns.

You may need to do trial and error with the sub2k.

It could also be bullet issue like somebody mentioned.

Since plated should be loaded at lead laoding recipes, is it safe to assume that I need to load my 124gr FMJ a little hotter. I did try some 124gr loaded with 4.0gr Titegroup and they did a little better. Do you think I should do a ladder test starting with 4.0 ---> 4.4 in 0.1gr increases?

lx1x · Oct 16, 2015

gre24ene said:
Since plated should be loaded at lead laoding recipes, is it safe to assume that I need to load my 124gr FMJ a little hotter. I did try some 124gr loaded with 4.0gr Titegroup and they did a little better. Do you think I should do a ladder test starting with 4.0 ---> 4.4 in 0.1gr increases?

Try .05 steps.. Till you hit max loads.

Make batches 5 or 10 per steps.

gre24ene · Oct 16, 2015

Thank you. I will do that

any other suggestions?

lx1x · Oct 16, 2015

Also.. Make few batches with less powder.. Keyhole can happen when its too fast or too slow..

gre24ene · Oct 16, 2015

will do.

frogman68 · Oct 16, 2015

Newbie to reloading too

My recipe is 4.4 tite group same coal no keyholing Glock 19 Gen 3

Never heard this about tite group not being newbie friendly. What I really like about this recipe it is the same for my Sistema 1927 , just move the lee powder dispenser between my two turrets

lx1x · Oct 16, 2015

frogman68 said:
Newbie to reloading too

My recipe is 4.4 tite group same coal no keyholing Glock 19 Gen 3

Never heard this about tite group not being newbie friendly. What I really like about this recipe it is the same for my Sistema 1927 , just move the lee powder dispenser between my two turrets

The only issue I've known was double charging.. It can happen if one is not paying attention.

Need help. Handloads keyholing/tumbling

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

When All Else Fails.

Ultimate Member

When All Else Fails.

Lighten up Francis

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Lighten up Francis

Ultimate Member

Lighten up Francis

Peanut Gallery

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Peanut Gallery

Ultimate Member

Peanut Gallery

Ultimate Member

товарищ плачевная

Peanut Gallery

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics