New Member, VZ58, PTR-32, or VEPR?

DetectiveWildman · Mar 6, 2018

Hey md shooters community, new member as this is my first post! Been continually lurking looking for advice and staying up to date on what's legal and maybe not legal. I'm looking for advice between the three guns above. From what I've seen, the VZ58 is pretty much well loved everywhere but they seem fairly expensive for what they are. Granted, I may just not be familiar with what guns run.
The PTR interests me, I really like the the ability for AK mags and the weight doesn't bother me. If be lying if the HK slap wasn't fun as hell, it shoots the cheap stuff like the VZ and is a little cheaper. However, I have no experience with HKs or roller locks. Any advice here? I know rollers can wear out but that might be way past any recreational round count I'll be doing.
VEPRs I think are beauties, I love the walnut stock even with the thumbhole. My main ? With these is what's actually legal? MSP just has the hunter variants as legal, but considering veprs don't have parts interchangabilt with AKs shouldn't they all be legal? How is real world accuracy from any users that own them? I'm not worried about shooting the head off a match 300 yards away but I guess groups I could cover with my palm would be nice.
Sorry for the text wall, looking forward to hearing from anyone with info to help my decision!

Bountied · Mar 6, 2018

My BIL has the PTR. He cracked his bolt, PTR fixed it and paid for shipping. The roller lock feels a little weird at first. Overall it's a great gun and fun to shoot.

aquaman · Mar 6, 2018

All three guns have WW2 ergonomics. IWI Galil ACE is really the best value solution in the current market. Obviously you're new here and to guns in general, time was AR's were 1k+ and the AK's were sub-$500. Ak rifles are fun but absolute shite if we're talking $ to $ comparison.

Bountied · Mar 6, 2018

aquaman said:
All three guns have WW2 ergonomics. IWI Galil ACE is really the best value solution in the current market. Obviously you're new here and to guns in general, time was AR's were 1k+ and the AK's were sub-$500. Ak rifles are fun but absolute shite if we're talking $ to $ comparison.

Except that all three rifles were designed post WW2. So I guess they would have cold war ergonomics? Out of the 3 the PTR has the best ergonomics if you don't mind the mag release, at least the safety is in the right place. You can only get the VEPR in a "non" 7.62X39 caliber also.

aquaman · Mar 6, 2018

Bountied said:
Except that all three rifles were designed post WW2. So I guess they would have cold war ergonomics? Out of the 3 the PTR has the best ergonomics if you don't mind the mag release, at least the safety is in the right place. You can only get the VEPR in a "non" 7.62X39 caliber also.

Nope, all the listed rifles started out on paper and in trials during WW2.

Bountied · Mar 6, 2018

aquaman said:
Nope, all the listed rifles started out on paper and in trials during WW2.

None of them were officially in service until after 1945. AK47 1947, VZ58 1958, HK G3 1958. Maybe they had a prototype but nothing final pre 1945. Just sayin

Dave MP · Mar 6, 2018

Will wait and see how this pans out.

aquaman · Mar 6, 2018

Bountied said:
None of them were officially in service until after 1945. AK47 1947, VZ58 1958, HK G3 1958. Maybe they had a prototype but nothing final pre 1945. Just sayin

And i'm just saying all three have ergonomics originating in WW2, the VZ-58 I have no idea about but it's controls are also pretty lousy. I own or have owned all he suggested, and if you do a lot of shooting or perhaps hunting I promise OP will become annoyed. Now if its just going to be a twice a year plinker whatever, its not like a car with bad headroom.

smdub · Mar 6, 2018

I have all three (my VEPR is pre-13 and no thumbhole stock.)
The VZ58 is just cool IMO. Shoots like a dream. Machined and very well made. The folding stock of the VZ2008 hits me in the cheek harder on recoil than my VZ58 where I don't really notice it. I planned to wrap the 2008 w/ paracord but haven't gotten around to it. I suspect they are slightly different springs or gas ports are different. Haven't looked into why the 2008 recoils harder than the 58. Mounting optics are a bit of a pain and expensive. I drilled and pinned the side rail on the 58 so I could use the side mount carrier w/ a red dot. Stock up on mags when they come into the country in a large batch and are cheap.
The PTR32 is a hoot. I dig HK ergos but not everyone does. I cut the magwell to take metal drums. Prob one of my favorite guns to shoot (but a sear pack is often involved so sways my decision a lot.) Picatinny rail makes it easy to add optics.
VEPR in x39 is just a beefed up AK. Simple, reliable, boring. Easily bottom on the list. I almost never shoot it. Nothing wrong w/ it, but the others have more 'personality'.

Also have a VEPR in 54R and I really dig it. Needs bigger mags though. But I'm a big-bore junky and just about anything large cal excites me.

Edit: Galil Ace is indeed a 'better AK'. I'd buy one over a VEPR in x39 today if I wanted an AK pattern rifle. If I ever found a good deal on one I'd pick it up as I like left side charging. There are AR-47s too. Blasphemy to some but I have a couple of those too. Again, since I like big bore 7.62x39 just provides a more satisfying 'whallop' while shooting than 5.56x45. Rings steel louder too.

smdub · Mar 6, 2018

Bountied said:
None of them were officially in service until after 1945. AK47 1947, VZ58 1958, HK G3 1958. Maybe they had a prototype but nothing final pre 1945. Just sayin

AR10 was first produced in 1956 (and the later AR15 w/ much praised ergos is nearly identical.) Save the AK, they were all designed almost in parallel.

Boss94 · Mar 6, 2018

All 3 are great choices! !! I personally have all 3 . But more partial to the PTR 32. It's a hoot to shoot with a very soft recoil pulse , which gives me faster follow up shots. Love that it uses cheap AK mags !!! Most of the internals are G3 parts which can be had almost anywhere if you need them.

DetectiveWildman · Mar 6, 2018

I appreciate the input so far guys. I'm not necessarily new to guns, but owning guns in my own name is relatively new. I grew up with my dad and grandad as collectors. Hell my "current" rifle is a M1917 "Enfield" by Remington. I don't know if it's a sin to admit this but I've never been a super fan of AR patterns. I don't know why, though FNs new maryland compliant FN-15 is striking to me. I'm surprised the vz58 opinion seems to be lower than the PTR. Reviews seemed favorable but like I said the almost 1300 price for one is offputting. Though I guess with arsenal AKs at a grand it's just in line with everything. I'll gladly listen to more opinions, I'm not dead set on those three. Just looking for a fun cheap to shoot semi auto. I also have a mini 30, but it's 189 prefix so thin barrel and sucks with cheap stuff. It's kinda meh, though I love how it looks.

chooks9 · Mar 6, 2018

I have a .308 Vepr and a CSA Vz-58. Both are excellent firearms. I have heard good things about the PTR-32. For my money and if I could only have one, i would go with the CSA Vz-58. Superbly made, very handy, quite accurate for a smaller rifle, and very ergonomic in my opinion. The only sticking point for me are the magazines being proprietary (milsurp ones are $18+ in free states and you need to swap a few parts to US-made ones in order to stay 922r compliant while using them).

The roller lock design isn't for everyone. It's kind of an oddball compared to the Vepr or the Vz-58. My Vepr is a great gun and I really like it, but the magazines are proprietary and very expensive (but CSSpecs makes superb Vepr mags that are actually less expensive than the Russian-made OEM mags). I enjoy shooting my Vepr, but I also enjoy shooting my Vz-58. Both have cold hammer-forged, chrome-lined barrels as well, if that means something to you (the PTR does not).

ziptiespec · Mar 6, 2018

I'll chime in since I own a PTR-32. As others have said, the PTR is a hoot. I describe it as shooting a typewriter. Depending on how old you are, you may understand that comparison

It's got a very soft recoil and the impulse is unique to the roller-locked design. I have AKs and lots of AK magazines so the ability to use mags from my existing collection was a big plus.

I love my AKs but the PTR has some definite advantages over them:

Sights. The HK sights are heads and tails better than AK sights. Plus, the sight radius on the PTR is much better than on most AKs.
Rail. The welded-on pic rail is solid and better than any of the rail systems I've used on an AK.

I do not expect to have any issues with the rollers, and if I do, it's not difficult to remedy.

aquaman · Mar 6, 2018

ziptiespec said:
I'll chime in since I own a PTR-32. As others have said, the PTR is a hoot. I describe it as shooting a typewriter. Depending on how old you are, you may understand that comparison It's got a very soft recoil and the impulse is unique to the roller-locked design. I have AKs and lots of AK magazines so the ability to use mags from my existing collection was a big plus.

I love my AKs but the PTR has some definite advantages over them:

Sights. The HK sights are heads and tails better than AK sights. Plus, the sight radius on the PTR is much better than on most AKs.

Rail. The welded-on pic rail is solid and better than any of the rail systems I've used on an AK.

I do not expect to have any issues with the rollers, and if I do, it's not difficult to remedy.

Only thing I'd add is the extended selector and the charging latch from the HK21. Both mods are cheap enough and really help out.

DetectiveWildman · Mar 6, 2018

Glad to hear that the PTR is a good platform from actual owners. It's tough getting a feel for how good they are with just cursory glances and 3rd party reviews. I did see something that the charging handle was an issue at it's stock length. I have to say I'm definitely leaning more that way. Is Atlantic firearms the best place to try and get one from or do some dealers carry them on their shelves?

rob-cubed · Mar 6, 2018

I have never owned a PTR, but the Century CETME I owned was less than impressive. Mostly, it ran really dirty and the cost of .308 ammo was a part of why it got sold. ANY blowback gun will be dirty and the flutes and chamber are a pain to clean with the G3 pattern of rifle. Also, headspacing roller-blowback is a bit unusual and Century did a craptastic job of making sure it was correct.

BUT, there is a lot to like about the roller-delayed blowback system. It shoots way softer than expected. The integrated rail on the PTR is a big plus over the CETME. I may need to consider one again based on the responses here.

Jimbob2.0 · Mar 6, 2018

VZ58 while you can. Better design than an AK.

erwos · Mar 6, 2018

Galil ACE is best. PTR-32 would be my choice after that.

woodline · Mar 7, 2018

I am a big fan of my CSA Vz58 . I am left handed, so I enjoy the lefty friendly ergos. I wouldn't say the other rifles you suggested aren't lefty friendly, but the Vz58 is the best (incidentally CSA makes a left side charging handle carrier for fairly cheap, so you can convert if you don't like how it comes). Galil is out for me as it seems to be designed specifically for right handed shooting and the controls don't really work for me. Regardless of the strong/weak side discussion, I like how light and handy the rifle is. The 30 round magazines are relatively inexpensive and enable last round bolt hold open. I like that the rifle has a bolt release. I love the paratrooper side folding stock, but it isn't the best for acquiring a good sight picture. CSA has begun drilling and tapping for an optics rail, which is nice.

The only real complaints I have about it are that running a red dot that cowitnesses with the irons is pretty difficult (you either get a neck weld for the red dot and the irons are obscured, or you change buttstock and if you take the optics off to use the irons, you're pretty much running a forehead weld), the lefty sling options are clunky, and aftermarket accessories are limited and expensive. I may try running an RMR or other small red dot on it to alleviate some of my issues. Still hunting for a good lefty sling option.

Assuming none of that matters much to the OP, the rifle handles like a dream. Controls are very intuitive, the gun is really well made, field strip is easy, and recoil is very tame (even with heavy 154gr loads). Once you get used to the rifle, the sights are easy to pick up and the gun is very accurate. If I had money I had to spend on any of the rifles discussed in this thread, I would buy another Vz58. I have shot and like the others (the vepr is a cool gun, though I'm a sucker for the 7.62x54r version for the novelty factor), but the Vz58 just puts a smile on my face.

New Member, VZ58, PTR-32, or VEPR?

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